FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[frankvb]

Just got this, and few observations on the first drive - as multiple posts above, speed control is worse than v11. It's way too chilled in the middle setting, sometimes drives way below the set speed even without any other traffic or other reasons to do that (I disabled auto speed after a few minutes as that was even worse), I didn't try assertive mode yet. What I absolutely hate is that they removed the single/double pull setting as I use TACC a lot (in particular as the routing doesn't want to use carpool lanes and entry/exits). I did add another profile to go back to autosteer, but there was absolutely no reason to remove that option from FSD.

On the other hand, it is way better in making turns and moving around in general (except that it drove in the middle between 2 lanes a few times while apparently it could not decide to go in one or the other, even when entering a left-turn lane).

All in all this needs a lot more improvement still.

 

[gottagofast]

V12 does great in towns and cities but not country roads? Is that the general impression?

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I’d be fine with this if it allowed use of the original method of speed control. But the old mode no longer exists.

But seems it is a limitation of the NNs and they CAN’T have a system that just ramps up to the set speed reliably, as it did before, when it has to take into account many other factors as input to the neural network. But right now the NN seems to completely ignore any inputs from driver requested speed above a certain level when using the old mode (which is now a new mode because it is not the same as the old mode).

That being said it seems to be consistently below the limit (perhaps a safety guardrail as you say), so surely they can fix that with training.

But it may be that this borking is going to be with us for the long term. We’ll see if they can figure it out. It could be a more difficult problem than autowipers!

It seems tricky to train a neural network on what speed it should travel. And apparently they can’t just tell it the speed (otherwise the old mode would work). So the days of the car traveling at the requested speed may be behind us.

It worked on 11.4.x on highways with the message:
“Maintaining speed for traffic” or whatever it would say. Figure they could just apply this city streets.

 

[mgs333]

We should have a bet on who will get it last instead of eagerly checking Teslafi and this thread constantly.

 

[MYoohMY]

What I absolutely hate is that they removed the single/double pull setting as I use TACC a lot (in particular as the routing doesn't want to use carpool lanes and entry/exits).

Couldn’t agree more with the single pull/double being gone, being frustrating. There are lots of situations I want tacc instead of fsd.

 

[Z_Lynx]

Time is short - Opossums are dying, people!

Ditto.

The one to two year lifespan seems too short.

I'm going with 2-4 years.

Virginia Opossum - Big Thicket National Preserve (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

Opossum women are lovely, with long slender snouts.

The kids are cute:

A gnarly block headed male opossum who visited one evening looked pretty ancient. Opossum's super powers are eating venomous snakes and lots of ticks.

Saving wildlife is high on my list of FSDb requirements.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It worked on 11.4.x on highways with the message:
“Maintaining speed for traffic” or whatever it would say. Figure they could just apply this city streets.

Totally different since that could just be managed with the planner code.

If (traffic is going faster) then
Speed up
endif

That was 3 lines of the 300k lines.

 

[AndrewZ]

A little bit more information for our neighbors to the North. Sounds like Canada will not be a part of this rollout, as additional training and validation is required for the country:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770209006348558507

I’d be wondering if this is affecting the Model S/X rollout outside of areas in California where the vehicles are less numerous and thus data are lacking.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

but there was absolutely no reason to remove that option from FSD.

How do you train the NN to pick the right TACC speed when the driver is providing the steering inputs? Seems like something along those lines might be why it is not available? Seems annoying to have to train up a totally different network.

 

[gsmith123]

but there was absolutely no reason to remove that option from FSD.

A theory I've heard about why it's gone is that they don't have enough compute to run:
- V12 (actually driving the car)
- V11 stack (for visualizations and probably automatic emergency braking)
- V-whatever legacy stack that controls TACC (as fallback when you override steer and the car reverts to TACC)

So they had to cut something and they decided to turn off TACC.

That said with a bit more work they could let you turn on TACC when FSD is off, via a double stalk pull. That wouldn't run into any compute limits since it wouldn't need to run TACC in parallel.

Knowing Tesla they can be pretty ruthless in prioritization though and may have just decided TACC wasn't that important (we're beta testers after all, I personally think I've agreed to deal with drawbacks like that and I don't have to take every update).

 

[laiod]

A theory I've heard about why it's gone is that they don't have enough compute to run:
- V12 (actually driving the car)
- V11 stack (for visualizations and probably automatic emergency braking)
- V-whatever legacy stack that controls TACC (as fallback when you override steer and the car reverts to TACC)

So they had to cut something and they decided to turn off TACC.

That said with a bit more work they could let you turn on TACC when FSD is off, via a double stalk pull. That wouldn't run into any compute limits since it wouldn't need to run TACC in parallel.

Knowing Tesla they can be pretty ruthless in prioritization though and may have just decided TACC wasn't that important (we're beta testers after all, I personally think I've agreed to deal with drawbacks like that and I don't have to take every update).

traditional radar would probably help with TACC specifically

 

[clydeiii]

12.3 now on both of our HW3 3s, in Baltimore, MD. Testing in Baltimore City for 15 minutes or so went well!

 

[sleepydoc]

Did the car nip into the store and pick up your drugs for you???

No. lol.

Junk!

 

[sleepydoc]

A theory I've heard about why it's gone is that they don't have enough compute to run:
- V12 (actually driving the car)
- V11 stack (for visualizations and probably automatic emergency braking)
- V-whatever legacy stack that controls TACC (as fallback when you override steer and the car reverts to TACC)

So they had to cut something and they decided to turn off TACC.

That said with a bit more work they could let you turn on TACC when FSD is off, via a double stalk pull. That wouldn't run into any compute limits since it wouldn't need to run TACC in parallel.

Knowing Tesla they can be pretty ruthless in prioritization though and may have just decided TACC wasn't that important (we're beta testers after all, I personally think I've agreed to deal with drawbacks like that and I don't have to take every update).

Except they woulnd’t be running them simultaneously. V12 on city streets, TACC with single pull or steering override.

 

[Todd Burch]

If I don’t have 12.3 by 6am I’m going to find a 1967 Dodge Dart in a junkyard, fill it with a combination of 87 octane and kerosine, fill the oil tank to WELL ABOVE the fill line (gasp!), remove the catalytic converter, park near a grove of young trees, and hold the RPMs at 6,000 as the trees get doused in poisonous gas until the tank runs dry.

My terms have been laid out. Tesla, you have less than 8 hours to comply.

 

[sleepydoc]

If I don’t have 12.3 by 6am I’m going to find a 1967 Dodge Dart in a junkyard, fill it with a combination of 87 octane and kerosine, fill the oil tank to WELL ABOVE the fill line (gasp!), remove the catalytic converter, park near a grove of young trees, and hold the RPMs at 6,000 as the trees get doused in poisonous gas until the tank runs dry.

My terms have been laid out. Tesla, you have less than 8 hours to comply.

Don’t forget to drive over some opossi on the way!

 

[gsmith123]

Except they woulnd’t be running them simultaneously. V12 on city streets, TACC with single pull or steering override.

To fallback on TACC on steering override it does need to keep TACC running continuously, so it can instantly switch over. Otherwise you'd get a weird jerky cutover between when FSD drops out and TACC starts up.

(Obviously I don't have an real inside insight into Tesla's software to confirm these ideas, but it seems pretty plausible to me)

 

[aronth5]

I actually just meant the Boston area in general, I'm on the North Shore. I'd have to do a lot of back roads and highway around here before attempting to brave Boston proper. So you're in MA and have an older V12, as supposedly no one in MA has 12.3 yet?

I have the latest V12 version with HW4. (2023 Model Y) Got it last night.

 

[Nizzore]

Is there any hope for people on a 2024 version?

 

[gsmith123]

Is there any hope for people on a 2024 version?

You're not going to get 2023.44.30.25, unfortunately, so not much hope for the next few days.

Hard to know how soon a 2024 branch based V12 is ready but it could be pretty soon. #TwoWeeksMaybe