mtndrew1
Active Member
Gosh yes, I forgot to comment on this. Several times my car has absolutely dropped anchor for yellow lights with plenty of time left to safely pass. Super weird.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Ha. Rebellionaire heading to Giga Nevada from Sparks Supercharger. "It's going kind of slow. I guess the speed limit is 20. I'm going to set it up so that it'll go a little bit over the speed limit. <bumps up to 30mph -- NHTSA max 50% above limit>"
12.3 was correctly driving 20mph although only because it was limited by traditional control with the 0 offset above detected limit. Because it quickly accelerated up to 30mph when the set speed bumped up, presumably this means AUTO would have wanted to go faster, and visually, there's 2 travel lanes in each direction separated by a median and surrounded by bike lanes.
Although given that the 20mph speed limit has yellow flags on it to draw extra attention, this might be a location where cops like to enforce the lower speed next to high pedestrian traffic / playground. I wonder if data collection will send back human driving behavior triggered by detection of nearby cops?
12.3 was correctly driving 20mph although only because it was limited by traditional control with the 0 offset above detected limit. Because it quickly accelerated up to 30mph when the set speed bumped up, presumably this means AUTO would have wanted to go faster, and visually, there's 2 travel lanes in each direction separated by a median and surrounded by bike lanes.
Although given that the 20mph speed limit has yellow flags on it to draw extra attention, this might be a location where cops like to enforce the lower speed next to high pedestrian traffic / playground. I wonder if data collection will send back human driving behavior triggered by detection of nearby cops?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Maybe. Hard to say if he touched the accelerator. Certainly possible it was the car being unleashed. In any case the speed started to annoyingly decay shortly thereafter. To 28mph.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
How does this even happen on end-to-end training ? Did they only feed clips of people stopping on yellow or is there a “final filter” a.k.a. Handwritten code.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
Yea how does it make its decision at the yellow light, wouldn’t it have to think on its own kind of?
I hope 12.3.1 is as random as 12.3. We will get it and someone like Chuck will passive aggressively keep pinging Elon wondering what’s going on. Oh, and then they’ll pause the roll out and anger everyone stuck on 12.3 until 12.4 pops…. three weeks later…. Slowly…..
Amen
On another note, if 12.3.1 is actually going to go out this weekend shouldn’t Omar be getting it soon so he can hype his brains out on X to everyone.
fasteddie7
Active Member
One would think if it was coded in they would code the standard for the speed limit dictating the time the light stays yellow, but if it's just fed videos, who knows if it will ever draw a conclusion on how long the yellow signal will be and just stops when it sees yellow.
I tend to do that myself .. dont slam on the brakes but I do brake a little harder at the start and then ease off as the car slows. I'm sure I'm not unique in this and it's quite likely that this behavior was just an outcome of the NN training.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This is what naturally happens if you release the accelerator.
That is what is mysterious.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not the way its supposed to work.
Basically NN learns by looking at other's videos. In general videos should show people going through on yellow also stopping on yellow (if yellow is seen from far). That is what FSD should do.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
You’ve frequently complained that it doesn’t accelerate fast enough for you and it wasn’t an issue of smoothness; that’s preference.
I have no idea if I’m experiencing exactly what you are experiencing. My stops are not how I would stop but perfectly acceptable. It brakes a bit harder earlier then brkes more slowly until it reaches the stop point. The closest comparison I can give is similar to what I would do if the light was red and I was expecting it to turn green and was trying to avoid stopping.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Was NOT the topic of discussion. We were discussing braking. I haven’t really complained about “going” as much with this build. Some issues at stop signs but largely related to decisions, not the acceleration profile.
However:
FWIW it now actually accelerates fast enough - off the line this morning I actually exceeded the speed of other traffic a bit. Nice slow start followed by a solid acceleration - what you want at intersections with red-light runners. The only issue really is that it fails to reach the desired velocity.
Exactly the issue. It’s totally borked rolling up to any stop line. Issue 1.
The jerkiness issue arises once speeds go above 40mph or probably if there is significant downhill. Roughly. Issue 2
fasteddie7
Active Member
Would the NHTSA allow such a set of arbitrary actions? Yellow light duration has a standard programmed into them that correlates with the speed limit on any given road. Much like stopping at the stop sign “line” even if the car has to creep and stop again due to obstruction maintains compliance, when the car “sees” the light turn yellow, wouldn’t they force it to look at the speed limit and calculate the time and distance to see if it would be cleared legally? There are a few states that can issue a violation if the light turns red even if the vehicle is past it, if it’s determined that the vehicle could have safely stopped. The first ticket would open up a huge can of worms.
It really wouldn't. FSD is an ADAS system and as such the person in the driver's seat is in control and responsible for all actions.
fasteddie7
Active Member
Under the assumption it’s always level 2. At some point as the technology progresses, if end to end is what ultimately allows for the advancement, it would have to be an issue. No matter how many lines of code are eliminated, there would have to be some hard coded rules, although I find it hard to believe it wouldn’t open a can of worms even now, the first YouTuber that get a ticket will create a cascading effect where everyone films it trying to do the same thing, it’ll go viral on multiple websites and the news, gaining attention, until some action is taken.
OxBrew
Active Member
Yellow light duration "standards" are just suggestions, and every locality does whatever the hell they want. Mostly, they are understaffed and mess them up, or have old equipment that is hard or impossible to adjust.
No way can speed limit predict yellow light duration, and it can change with traffic conditions at the same light.
I did a fairly deep dive trying to hold a city accountable for a 3 second yellow light when the "standard" was 5 seconds for the speed. Red light camera dinged me.
Brother in law is a traffic engineer one city over. He called the other city engineer and asked about it. They had old equipment that took an hour to fiddle with, just to get it to 3 seconds, so they never adjusted it.
Don't even start to think anyone is going to predict yellow light duration as a function of speed limit. Not going to happen.
Plus, the redlight camera contractor published marketing material suggesting cities find the shortest yellow lights they have to install the cameras, for higher revenue. Nice little racket they have there, don't want to rock that boat.
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