Yep. My neighbor had bought several other cars from this dealership. Today it is cash talks, everything else walks.
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Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E
- Thread starter pepperoni
- Start date
Let us know how your Ford battery is in 4 years. Like my 4 year old Tesla's. Pretty good after almost 300k in miles.
Ford and GM have no idea about batteries. They are all playing in a giant pool of ketchup.
If one's decision comes down to tax credit or no tax credit on a car. Well, I wouldn't want anybody else making informed decisions on that. I don't go to my accountant and ask him which car to drive. So when you do make your decision, please don't let it be based on that or don't tell anybody.
The likelihood of you holding onto that Smurf blue car for anything over 3 years is well. I'll put a really low likelihood of probability. Then finding somebody that wants to buy it. That might be a tougher sell. Don't see that problem with a Tesla though.
Good luck.
Ford and GM have no idea about batteries. They are all playing in a giant pool of ketchup.
If one's decision comes down to tax credit or no tax credit on a car. Well, I wouldn't want anybody else making informed decisions on that. I don't go to my accountant and ask him which car to drive. So when you do make your decision, please don't let it be based on that or don't tell anybody.
The likelihood of you holding onto that Smurf blue car for anything over 3 years is well. I'll put a really low likelihood of probability. Then finding somebody that wants to buy it. That might be a tougher sell. Don't see that problem with a Tesla though.
Good luck.
Here is what it says:
Definitely check on your F-150 order to make sure there are no games. I’ve heard stories that some are adding a markup without telling they buyer, but it will be there for you to see on the order agreement webpage. A verbal agreement is worth something, especially if you place the order then and there in the store. This is what I did. You can shop around for dealers, even though they have no cars on the lot. They set the price with you at the time you place your order.
I check and the final price is "subject to change ....". That is worrying. They had already pushed the order back a year.
But, I may cancel the F-150 order since it was a hedge against Tesla not being able to deliver a Model X. It looks like the Xs are shipping so hopefully I will get mine in Winter/Spring. However, I might keep the F-150 order and see if I can resell it to someone that wants a pickup more than I do.
Batteries are a big open question, especially with a first run car. It is definitely a consideration in my decision. Ford has an 8 year warranty like Tesla, though only 100k miles.
Also, Tesla is not without battery problems, with lots of older cars coming off warranty now needing expensive battery replacements. For example, here is a compilation:
Service says $22k for new battery on 2012 Model S
For those not believing these things happen with any frequency, I'll add another data point to the mix. Our 2013 P85 (bought in 2015 when they started the CPO program) currently has 244k miles on it. The battery has been replaced twice, once at 190k and again at ~220k. The first time was because...
teslamotorsclub.com
Tesla does have more experience in the field which is a good thing. Plus, if/when my hypothetical Tesla Y battery does need out of warranty service years down the road, I would hope there are more aftermarket repair/replace options than a $22K battery from the Tesla SC. Musk did tweet a few years ago about $5K-$7K battery modules for the 3 in the future, but that has yet to materialize. He also did say these batteries would last 300K to 500K miles, and your experience is evidence of that.
Please show me where there are lots of batteries needing replacement. You picked one person with an experience, and a thread to go with it with others chiming in. I read that thread along time before you got here.... Sure are there some. Yes. Are there lots? No there are not. Please choose better words, or have better stats to back them up.
Ford is a gamble. Yes I gambled along time ago. Why should you? Are you Papa Smurf in need of a Ford?
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
No, a verbal agreement is worth nothing legally unless you have something to back it up.
What do you do when the dealer says ‘no?’ You can force the dealer to honor a written contract. Good luck with an unverifiable verbal agreement.
Very true. I had a quote fo a car we ordered and when it came in they added money to it and things I didn’t order and said take it or leave it.
Can you imagine if Tesla increased the price of the car someone ordered when it was finally delivered. People and media would lose their minds.
I am pretty sure none of EVs compete with each other rather than taking ICE sales away.
OxBrew
Active Member
Sure, but a custom order should be a signed contract, with a set price. Almost like a bait and switch.
I didn’t pick one example, I specifically linked to post #86 that linked to lots of examples. Go ahead and click on that link again. I know you’ve read it all before. There are lots of other examples within that thread and many others suggesting it is much more common than you let on. I’m not pointing this out to be a knock on Tesla, and certainly have no interest in debating the topic here. I’m in total agreement with others on this forum that Tesla’s battery tech is ahead and Ford’s is still unproven.
I have to say, I’m not liking the vibe on this thread much lately. Your post was a bit condescending, but you aren’t the only one. I know, I know, what did I expect… Posting a question about a Ford on a Tesla forum is bound to ruffle some fur. Fortunately, most of the people here have been super polite and friendly, and I have found some genuinely useful perspectives on why Tesla is the right choice.
With that, I’m going to let this thread cool down a bit and not post for a while. I will eventually come back to report on my decision.
OxBrew
Active Member
Ford Mach E battery is not unproven: it is identical to the Chevy Bolt that is currently under 100% recall.
Go read the Inside EVs article. It damning.
Mustang Mach-E Battery Charges Slowly, Overheats Quickly: Why?
Through extensive research and modeling, we dive into the Mach-E's battery issues. We also compare it to the Tesla Model Y and Volkswagen ID.4.
insideevs.com
If you still choose the Mach E, I suspect you're a Ford sock puppet.
An ancillary question regarding price changes and ordering. It is clear if someone placed an order at price x, and two weeks later the price became x+, when that person received his car he would pay price x, no?
Well if that same person place an order for price x, and two weeks later the price went down to x-, when that person received his car what would he pay, price x or price x-?
thanks.
Well if that same person place an order for price x, and two weeks later the price went down to x-, when that person received his car what would he pay, price x or price x-?
thanks.
FOOLSLFDRVNG
Member
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Several people have pointed out the battery concerns with the Mach E, so @pepperoni is well aware of them. Since s/he hasn't cancelled the order, s/he presumably thinks it's either not an issue or otherwise worth the risk. Personally, I would wait or at the very least lease the car instead of buying it, but that's his/her decision.Ford Mach E battery is not unproven: it is identical to the Chevy Bolt that is currently under 100% recall.
Go read the Inside EVs article. It damning.
Mustang Mach-E Battery Charges Slowly, Overheats Quickly: Why?
Through extensive research and modeling, we dive into the Mach-E's battery issues. We also compare it to the Tesla Model Y and Volkswagen ID.4.
If you still choose the Mach E, I suspect you're a Ford sock puppet.
Regarding the contract, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the dealer either changes price or adds a bunch of dealer installed accessories, or both. After all, this is the same dealer that tried to claim you can charge a Mach E at a super charger. Even if you have a written contract, forcing the dealer to honor it is difficult at best. The OP has stated s/he has an order with Tesla as well as Ford, so presumably if the dealer started pulling that kind of BS they would simply walk away and get the Tesla.
Uggghhh!!!! I promised myself I wasn't going to post again, but against my better judgement, here I am again... Yes OxBrew, I saw the article you posted. Twice. Within the same 24 hour period. I know you really wanted to be sure I saw that click-baity article you posted. I can't say I was all that impressed. Damning it is not. So the author "reverse-engineered" the battery conductive thermal path based on a YouTube screen shot from a Sandy Munro video, and then came up with a table of made up "thermal bottleneck score" numbers to provide evidence for his hypothesis about some performance issues he read about the Mach E on the internet. Apparently he is able to spot an engineering defect just by creating a simple math model from pictures in a YouTube video which the engineers at LG with their fancy finite element models missed. Is he correct? It certainly is possible, but his analysis is based on a pretty flimsy set of data, and he doesn't even share his math. As such, I am not going to draw any hard conclusions from this one-dimensional analysis. What matters to me is how the car performs in the field. Yes, there are indeed some reports of reduced acceleration during "aggressive track-style driving." But I don't drive like that, so why should it weigh into my decision? And the slower DC fast charging rates? These have been noted too. Not a deal-breaker for me since I will be doing most of my charging at home. And honestly, it's not that much slower than Tesla. Anyway, Ford is promising an update to improve the charging curve. The slower charging curve has been attributed to Ford being more conservative, not because of some defect in their thermal design. I do enjoy studying the engineering that goes into these vehicles, and have seen and enjoyed all of Sandy Munro's videos on the Ford and Tesla (please don't send me the "thermal nightmare" video, yes I've seen that one too). But that insideevs article? Pretty thin gruel.Ford Mach E battery is not unproven: it is identical to the Chevy Bolt that is currently under 100% recall.
Go read the Inside EVs article. It damning.
Mustang Mach-E Battery Charges Slowly, Overheats Quickly: Why?
Through extensive research and modeling, we dive into the Mach-E's battery issues. We also compare it to the Tesla Model Y and Volkswagen ID.4.
If you still choose the Mach E, I suspect you're a Ford sock puppet.
Regarding your comment about the Mach-E battery being "identical to the Chevy Bolt that is currently under 100% recall," that's just pure FUD. The article you forwarded states that the two battery packs use the "same conceptual architecture" but you go a step further and claim they are "identical" and then lump them together with the Chevy Bolt recall. What are you trying to imply? That if I buy the Mach E my house will burn down? Because that is what I think I am meant to infer from your post.
Ok, this sock puppet is signing out. Hopefully for real this time!
The battery / motors have a fairly significant warranty period as well. If Ford truly f'd up the battery thermal design (or LG) , then it ought to be covered. Would that be inconvenient? Sure, but it's not like owners will be SoL with no recourse.
Ignoring the Munro analysis, one thing that is troubling is that owners have already observed throttling problems after "drag strip" runs in Unbridled mode, and when charging. It would lend some credence to the hypothesis that a shared design with the Bolt batteries is not working in Ford's favor.
Ignoring the Munro analysis, one thing that is troubling is that owners have already observed throttling problems after "drag strip" runs in Unbridled mode, and when charging. It would lend some credence to the hypothesis that a shared design with the Bolt batteries is not working in Ford's favor.
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