100% this. If I actually got the 351 Mile EPA range on the highway my car was sold with (‘21 M3 LR AWD w/19”) I’d be a happy clam. Versus the 240-260 of actual, real highway range at normal highway speeds.
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How long until we get a 400+ mile model Y?
- Thread starter Westcoast42
- Start date
That's actually a good reason to put in a bigger battery. Even if you don't increase the maximum charge rate, instead of only being able to maintain the 250 kW charge rate up to 20% SoC, with a battery twice as large, you'd be able to maintain the 250 kW charge rate up to the same SoC that the current technology tapers to 125 kW which is somewhere around the 50% mark. So I can see a reason to put up to around a 700 mile range battery in a vehicle so long as batteries are similar to today's technology and have to taper above 20% SoC. Actually meeting a 350 mile real world range test is pretty close to the limit your bladder imposes, but the problem is you can only do this once per day on a trip, after leaving your garage or hotel (assuming there's a EVSE at your hotel). Subsequent stops are limited to just 40-60% of the real world range of your battery, which in the case of the Model 3 LR, is around 120-150 miles. That's way too short and all of these stops are battery limited, not bladder limited. A stop for a meal likely puts you up at around 60-80% SoC but your next stop is still likely battery limited rather than bladder limited.
Of course, if they make a battery that can charge to 90% in 10-15 minutes, this issue goes away. But with today's technology, the only way to make sure all of your stops are bladder limited and not battery limited is to put a 700 mile battery in a vehicle.
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1) That's a fowl comment.
2) *second comment redacted by poster for decency*
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Nubo
Test Mule
This argument reminds me of similar arguments over Apple products. "XXX has had YYY component/spec for 2 years now; what happened to Apple being an innovator??". The underlying difference of opinion hinges on whether you value individual specifications or overall balance/utility for a particular use case. The two are not always compatible.
When is Tesla going to be real and actually deliver a true legitimate MY that gets 300 miles without having to drive 65MPH ? Arizona speed limit is 75MPH and most including big rig trailers going 80+mph
Trying to keep up on a Tesla MY you’ll be lucky to get 220 
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
When is Tesla going to be real and actually deliver a true legitimate MY that gets 300 miles without having to drive 65MPH ? Arizona speed limit is 75MPH and most including big rig trailers going 80+mph
Let me rephrase this question for you,
"When will Tesla stop using the EPA test cycle !?!!!"
Not to mention when it's cold also. Or towing. I think Tesla will ramp mileage once they get their demand under control. As long as people keep buying them, there's no pressure to change.When is Tesla going to be real and actually deliver a true legitimate MY that gets 300 miles without having to drive 65MPH ? Arizona speed limit is 75MPH and most including big rig trailers going 80+mph
Enough said 
To be fair, there's not much indication that they are generating a net profit at the moment. I'd guess that will change as volumes keep increasing, though.
…and Elon said long ago that superchargers wouldn’t operate “for profit” so it’s not surprising that the per KWh costs are so much lower than the other networks
To the OP’s question… as soon as a competitor offers 400 mile range at a similar price point. FWIW, I’ll be glad when we can stop talking about range and start talking about efficiency in miles per KWh terms. Comparing range is like comparing the size of the gas tank in ICE vehicles.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Need a third bridge.
Supercharging cost is most definitely not “so much lower” than other DC fast charging networks. In many places Electrify America is notably cheaper now.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I read that EA is looking for investment partners. Perhaps a good place for you to re-invest your bridge money ? Or offer them a 1031 ?
Range is a result of battery size x efficiency. Comparing gas tank sizes would be the equivalent of comparing battery size, without taking into account efficiency (ie mpg or kw/mi). So range is a good thing to look at while technology is what it currently is.
Battery power density has been getting slowly better in the last 10-15 years. It seems reasonable to me that within the next 5ish years or so, we'll hit a point where a vehicle in the same price/class as a Model Y could have a 400-500 mile range with a battery pack about the same size.
What would that look like?
Immediately, that would render ICE cars as daily drivers basically obsolete. A 500 mile range would be a tipping point, as it would alleviate nearly all concerns that most people have about EVs.
Off the top of my head, here's what you'd get with a 500 mile range EV.
- Range is good for around 6-1/2 hours of driving, so that would assuredly close the time gap between ICE and EVs for long road trips
- Allows for longer range trips into places with little or no charging infrastructure, like for camping
- Would reduce concerns about battery degradation
- Would alleviate concerns about reduced power/range in cold weather
- Much less worry about vampire drain from Sentry Mode, Camp Mode, etc.
- Enables towing ranges of ~150+ miles
- Allow for longer usable life of the vehicle
- Opens up more possibilities for using your EV to charge/run tools, camping equipment, electric bikes, etc.
- Makes vehicle-to-grid/home technology more enticing
All other variables being equal, a Model Y with a 400-500 mile range would basically be the stake through the heart of ICE vehicles.
What would that look like?
Immediately, that would render ICE cars as daily drivers basically obsolete. A 500 mile range would be a tipping point, as it would alleviate nearly all concerns that most people have about EVs.
Off the top of my head, here's what you'd get with a 500 mile range EV.
- Range is good for around 6-1/2 hours of driving, so that would assuredly close the time gap between ICE and EVs for long road trips
- Allows for longer range trips into places with little or no charging infrastructure, like for camping
- Would reduce concerns about battery degradation
- Would alleviate concerns about reduced power/range in cold weather
- Much less worry about vampire drain from Sentry Mode, Camp Mode, etc.
- Enables towing ranges of ~150+ miles
- Allow for longer usable life of the vehicle
- Opens up more possibilities for using your EV to charge/run tools, camping equipment, electric bikes, etc.
- Makes vehicle-to-grid/home technology more enticing
All other variables being equal, a Model Y with a 400-500 mile range would basically be the stake through the heart of ICE vehicles.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Many of your points are already true with Teslas’ current range:
- Daily drivers: how many people drive more than 150 miles per day? The overwhelming majority of people drive less than 100 miles per day.
- Battery degredation: Teslas easily last 150K miles. That’s plenty for the vast majority of people.
- Road trips: it would make a difference for the 400 mile road trip. For longer road trips you would still need to charge, just spend twice as long charging when yhou do.
- Vehicle-to-grid/home: vehicle to grid really isn’t a thought or concern for most people. Vehicle to home is already available with the F150 lightning that has a 115 kWh battery. If you’re worried about powering your home a powerwall or similar setup makes far more sense.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
There’s plenty that have lasted longer; I just chose 150k as a. Point that most people would be satisfied with. Here in MN the salt will have eaten through the frame by that point anyway!
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