Jack up the fees please!!!!

[brucet999]

Every departure was people with full shopping bags. Every arrival was people who immediately lit out for the mall... some of them with empty reusable cloth bags.

When my car is charging on a trip I always get out and go for a walk, find a bathroom, get something to eat. Why would you assume that those who walk to the mall are necessarily locals? I would more likely assume that those who were sitting in their cars are locals rather than road trippers who had been driving for an hour and a half and need to stretch their legs.

 

[sorka]

Do you think that Tesla can track locations of the entire fleet and drill down to determine how many are at a SC site and not charging?

It has taken 4 years just to get info on the number of stalls actually in use, a far easier data set to gather and process.

The data is there. It's just a matter of their priorities. As the population increases dramatically without a proportional increase in charging capacity, push will come to shove and they'll have to get very clever and good with big data.

 

[Rocky_H]

When my car is charging on a trip I always get out and go for a walk, find a bathroom, get something to eat. Why would you assume that those who walk to the mall are necessarily locals? I would more likely assume that those who were sitting in their cars are locals rather than road trippers who had been driving for an hour and a half and need to stretch their legs.

Thank you for this. The shopping bags comment being presented as smoking gun proof of damned dirty locals was just hilarious. We always keep out reusable cloth bags in the back of the car all the time. For anyone on a trip, if that's one of their stops, it would be pretty likely that they would take a couple of bags with them if they are going to go kill some time in the mall.

 

[tomas]

Ok. Throwing another log on the fire. Another experience today (Sunday again). Atascadero. 6 stalls filled, 4 open, so no wait. Half power, but no wait. Not complaining, but I did notice this: to get to highway north or south, you exit lot right. Exit left for local traffic. 3 out of 4 cars who departed during my 40 minutes charging.... turned left. Not hard evidence, but I continue to believe most SPC issues (full, reduced charge rate) are caused by locals charging when they don't need to. And Sunday seems like a big day for it.

 

[FlyF4]

And this affliction has an easy remedy:

View attachment 213016

Now that is a post I wanted to see. I learned a couple of things today. I learned the name for a few people on here who think they are better than everyone else with their nasty comments. And secondly, how to ignore them. Thanks

 

[Ulmo]

Here is my response to today's announcement late fees are increasing: it has 3 parts. Each one is entirely different.


I have a multi-part answer to this, which is identical to what I said when I first encountered this program in my Model S two years ago:

1. The grace period is too short. Often, you are waiting in line at a store a 5 minute walk away from the SuperCharger when the SuperCharger decides to stop working without any warning. Then, Apple Incorporated takes an extra 3 to 4 minutes to have the Tesla App notify you on the Notification Bar. Then, you must start walking back to your Tesla after a 7 minute wait in a store line. That is 7+4+5+reading time (1) minutes=17 minutes common worse-case to get back to your car in rather normal circumstances when it is Tesla's fault for stopping your charging session in the middle of a charging session for no apparent reason. That's $17 if Tesla determines that the SuperCharger is "full", often the status of SuperChargers that are only 25% full because their SuperCharger-full detection algorithms are also faulty.
   
   This lack of sufficient grace period all needs to be fixed, and pronto. Every aspect of it needs to be fixed:
   
   
   a. Get the SuperCharger detection of car SuperCharging algorithm fixed to near 100% accuracy. (Don't lie to us: everyone who follows SuperChargers on TMC knows for sure that the system to detect cars SuperChargin is very faulty and inaccurate, usually showing more use than actually using it.)
   
   b. Know the % SOC of every car SuperCharging; if the car is not at 80% or 90% and the SuperCharging gets disconnected for any reason at all other than a confirmed command from the Tesla App (not just some "claim" of a disconnect) or confirmed stopping at the console of the car by a real person (not just some programming inside the car), then that disconnection does not count; the car owner should be warned through the app and console that the SuperCharger stopped (for whatever reason), and then they should get an extra 15 minutes to go deal with that regardless of why, and in addition to any other grace periods.. Once again, do not lie to us and say that SuperCharger malfunctions are "rare": they are not rare. I had them at 20% of my SuperCharging sessions.
   
   c. 5 minutes is too short. Make the grace period have bite, but not be so draconian: At minutes 1-4, go ahead and charge nothing. Then, at minute 5, charge 10% of the per minute fee; at minute 6, charge 25% of the per minute fee; at minute 7, charge 45% of the fee; at minute 8, charge 70% of the per minute fee; and finally, at minute 9, charge 100% of the per minute fee ($0.50/minute if the SC is not full, and $1/minute if it is full). If the SC is full, that would be $0.10 at minute 5, another $0.25 at minute 6, another $0.45 at minute 7, another $0.70 at minute 8, and another $1 at minutes 9 onward. So, if you RUN back with your coffee spilling everywhere and knocking other people over at the grocery store and dashing in front of cars driving through parking lots and spill coffee on your clothing and get back to your car at minute 8 at a full SuperCharger, you have cumulatively racked up a late fee of $0.10+$0.25+$0.45+$0.70=$1.50. That is not as much bite as $4, BUT people will KNOW that EVERY minute after that is another $1, so, for instance, if that same person walked back to the SuperCharger and it took an additional 3 minutes, then that late fee would be $4.50, which has real bite. If they came back a full 15 minutes late with the above scheme to a full SuperCharger, then the late fee would be a sizable $8.50, which is sure to hurt everyone except the most rich, which you can't get to anyway. If they are obstinant for a whole 20 minutes, they would be charged $13.50. If they dilly-dally for half an hour, their charge is a cool $23.50. Model 3 owners do not want to be charged $5 for getting back 10 minutes after a charging session completed. $3.50 is OK; $5 is pushing it really hard into Tesla being EVIL territory, like Google, Facebook, and Netflix.
   
   I'd be in favor of the ramped-fee style in (c) being tuned about 1-2 minutes earlier; that is, $0.10 for minute #4 rather than minute #5.
   
   d. Estimates in the console for when the SuperCharge session completes are woefully wrong. It often starts with "45 minutes to complete charge", then when you step out of your car, ten minutes later it is giving you a notification that it has only 5 minutes left to complete charging. If you are a middle-income person and see that notice while in line to buy something, what do you think your opinion of Tesla will be at that very moment, when you think about having to drop your purchase items on the floor, run, knocking people over in the store and in the parking lot, and running back to your car, having to stop at every parking lot and street crossing so you don't get run over? You will think of Tesla as being very evil.​
   
   No, Elon, you, with $20,000,000,000.00 do not understand this. You can't even comprehend it. People can be assessed a late fee of one billionth (10⁻⁹) of what your net worth today is, and struggle to pay it. Nor can any of your Directors, who, for instance, one of which has received around 270,099 Tesla shares in compensation since 2011, at one point worth $102,637,620; while each Director has a net worth of maybe a fraction of yours, that would still put them possibly at 5 million times the income from Tesla that a Model 3 owner would have to pay for being 25 minutes late when a SuperCharger shuts off early for no reason without proper notification, and the Model 3 owner would struggle to pay that fee (if it is a common occurence, and maybe even if it is not).
   
   Granted, someone paying $100 of late fees per year is not a huge burden; I'm talking about common SuperCharger and policy errors that rack up to $500 when owners are not looking to incur such a fee. It's all in the numbers, and that is excessive. You can have a program with bite without it being penalistic of Tesla faults or normal life activities. Have a real true understanding of the value of money, Elon.
   
   Ok, my #2:
   
2. I am all in favor of the fees being raised to $1 after a sufficient and accurate grace period. Late fees should definitely be effective.
   
   
3. It should not be "$1 for SuperCharger full, $0.50 for not full"; what constitutes full? It should just be a flat $1 * % full; for instance, if it is a 10 spot SuperCharger and 4 spots are occupied, the fee should be $0.40/minute (after the 8th minute). If 8 spots are occupied, then the fee should be $0.80/minute (after the 8th minute). That way, a human being subjectively looking at "how full" any SuperCharger is (and probably will be by the time they get back) will understand when the fee exactly tracks the fullness of the SuperCharger. They should not be slammed for parking at a 75% full SuperCharger that has 40 positions and 10 of them are currently empty, so there is literally NO reason to leave early, since there is AMPLE room for 10 new SuperChargers in addition to anyone already there (so others could leave earlier and even more cars could come with no impact); even in my ramped grace period proportional fullness suggestion, people returning to a 75% full SuperCharger with 10 empty spots would be charged late fees, so don't worry, the action of the program would still illicit a response from owners to avoid being late, rather than fear being late. Fear begets rebellion, sabatoge, vandalism, counterproductivity, and HIGHER COST AND LOWER SATISFACTION AND MARKET SHARE FOR TESLA; regular habit begets happiness, politeness, good feelings, good function, and economically improved output. The difference is something that is probably a hair-bredth's worth of a nuance to someone of your income, Elon.

That's everything I said two years ago, and I repeat it now, since it is still true. All of it.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Here is my response to today's announcement late fees are increasing: it has 3 parts. Each one is entirely different.


I have a multi-part answer to this, which is identical to what I said when I first encountered this program in my Model S two years ago:

1. The grace period is too short. Often, you are waiting in line at a store a 5 minute walk away from the SuperCharger when the SuperCharger decides to stop working without any warning. Then, Apple Incorporated takes an extra 3 to 4 minutes to have the Tesla App notify you on the Notification Bar. Then, you must start walking back to your Tesla after a 7 minute wait in a store line. That is 7+4+5+reading time (1) minutes=17 minutes common worse-case to get back to your car in rather normal circumstances when it is Tesla's fault for stopping your charging session in the middle of a charging session for no apparent reason. That's $17 if Tesla determines that the SuperCharger is "full", often the status of SuperChargers that are only 25% full because their SuperCharger-full detection algorithms are also faulty.
   
   This lack of sufficient grace period all needs to be fixed, and pronto. Every aspect of it needs to be fixed:
   
   
   a. Get the SuperCharger detection of car SuperCharging algorithm fixed to near 100% accuracy. (Don't lie to us: everyone who follows SuperChargers on TMC knows for sure that the system to detect cars SuperChargin is very faulty and inaccurate, usually showing more use than actually using it.)
   
   b. Know the % SOC of every car SuperCharging; if the car is not at 80% or 90% and the SuperCharging gets disconnected for any reason at all other than a confirmed command from the Tesla App (not just some "claim" of a disconnect) or confirmed stopping at the console of the car by a real person (not just some programming inside the car), then that disconnection does not count; the car owner should be warned through the app and console that the SuperCharger stopped (for whatever reason), and then they should get an extra 15 minutes to go deal with that regardless of why, and in addition to any other grace periods.. Once again, do not lie to us and say that SuperCharger malfunctions are "rare": they are not rare. I had them at 20% of my SuperCharging sessions.
   
   c. 5 minutes is too short. Make the grace period have bite, but not be so draconian: At minutes 1-4, go ahead and charge nothing. Then, at minute 5, charge 10% of the per minute fee; at minute 6, charge 25% of the per minute fee; at minute 7, charge 45% of the fee; at minute 8, charge 70% of the per minute fee; and finally, at minute 9, charge 100% of the per minute fee ($0.50/minute if the SC is not full, and $1/minute if it is full). If the SC is full, that would be $0.10 at minute 5, another $0.25 at minute 6, another $0.45 at minute 7, another $0.70 at minute 8, and another $1 at minutes 9 onward. So, if you RUN back with your coffee spilling everywhere and knocking other people over at the grocery store and dashing in front of cars driving through parking lots and spill coffee on your clothing and get back to your car at minute 8 at a full SuperCharger, you have cumulatively racked up a late fee of $0.10+$0.25+$0.45+$0.70=$1.50. That is not as much bite as $4, BUT people will KNOW that EVERY minute after that is another $1, so, for instance, if that same person walked back to the SuperCharger and it took an additional 3 minutes, then that late fee would be $4.50, which has real bite. If they came back a full 15 minutes late with the above scheme to a full SuperCharger, then the late fee would be a sizable $8.50, which is sure to hurt everyone except the most rich, which you can't get to anyway. If they are obstinant for a whole 20 minutes, they would be charged $13.50. If they dilly-dally for half an hour, their charge is a cool $23.50. Model 3 owners do not want to be charged $5 for getting back 10 minutes after a charging session completed. $3.50 is OK; $5 is pushing it really hard into Tesla being EVIL territory, like Google, Facebook, and Netflix.
   
   I'd be in favor of the ramped-fee style in (c) being tuned about 1-2 minutes earlier; that is, $0.10 for minute #4 rather than minute #5.
   
   d. Estimates in the console for when the SuperCharge session completes are woefully wrong. It often starts with "45 minutes to complete charge", then when you step out of your car, ten minutes later it is giving you a notification that it has only 5 minutes left to complete charging. If you are a middle-income person and see that notice while in line to buy something, what do you think your opinion of Tesla will be at that very moment, when you think about having to drop your purchase items on the floor, run, knocking people over in the store and in the parking lot, and running back to your car, having to stop at every parking lot and street crossing so you don't get run over? You will think of Tesla as being very evil.​
   
   No, Elon, you, with $20,000,000,000.00 do not understand this. You can't even comprehend it. People can be assessed a late fee of one billionth (10⁻⁹) of what your net worth today is, and struggle to pay it. Nor can any of your Directors, who, for instance, one of which has received around 270,099 Tesla shares in compensation since 2011, at one point worth $102,637,620; while each Director has a net worth of maybe a fraction of yours, that would still put them possibly at 5 million times the income from Tesla that a Model 3 owner would have to pay for being 25 minutes late when a SuperCharger shuts off early for no reason without proper notification, and the Model 3 owner would struggle to pay that fee (if it is a common occurence, and maybe even if it is not).
   
   Granted, someone paying $100 of late fees per year is not a huge burden; I'm talking about common SuperCharger and policy errors that rack up to $500 when owners are not looking to incur such a fee. It's all in the numbers, and that is excessive. You can have a program with bite without it being penalistic of Tesla faults or normal life activities. Have a real true understanding of the value of money, Elon.
   
   Ok, my #2:
   
2. I am all in favor of the fees being raised to $1 after a sufficient and accurate grace period. Late fees should definitely be effective.
   
   
3. It should not be "$1 for SuperCharger full, $0.50 for not full"; what constitutes full? It should just be a flat $1 * % full; for instance, if it is a 10 spot SuperCharger and 4 spots are occupied, the fee should be $0.40/minute (after the 8th minute). If 8 spots are occupied, then the fee should be $0.80/minute (after the 8th minute). That way, a human being subjectively looking at "how full" any SuperCharger is (and probably will be by the time they get back) will understand when the fee exactly tracks the fullness of the SuperCharger. They should not be slammed for parking at a 75% full SuperCharger that has 40 positions and 10 of them are currently empty, so there is literally NO reason to leave early, since there is AMPLE room for 10 new SuperChargers in addition to anyone already there (so others could leave earlier and even more cars could come with no impact); even in my ramped grace period proportional fullness suggestion, people returning to a 75% full SuperCharger with 10 empty spots would be charged late fees, so don't worry, the action of the program would still illicit a response from owners to avoid being late, rather than fear being late. Fear begets rebellion, sabatoge, vandalism, counterproductivity, and HIGHER COST AND LOWER SATISFACTION AND MARKET SHARE FOR TESLA; regular habit begets happiness, politeness, good feelings, good function, and economically improved output. The difference is something that is probably a hair-bredth's worth of a nuance to someone of your income, Elon.

That's everything I said two years ago, and I repeat it now, since it is still true. All of it.

Just get back to your car, chop-chop!
I'm waiting to charge.

 

[sorka]

In 50+ supercharging sessions, I've never had a supercharger stop prior to hitting he charge setpoint.

 

[thecloud]

Ok. Throwing another log on the fire. Another experience today (Sunday again). Atascadero. 6 stalls filled, 4 open, so no wait. Half power, but no wait. Not complaining, but I did notice this: to get to highway north or south, you exit lot right. Exit left for local traffic. 3 out of 4 cars who departed during my 40 minutes charging.... turned left. Not hard evidence, but I continue to believe most SPC issues (full, reduced charge rate) are caused by locals charging when they don't need to. And Sunday seems like a big day for it.

Have to disagree with this "left turn must be local" logic. The exit that Tesla's navigation recommends for the Atascadero supercharger is actually north of the supercharger (Traffic Way). People unfamiliar with the area will simply retrace their steps, by turning left to go back to where they exited.

 

[thecloud]

In 50+ supercharging sessions, I've never had a supercharger stop prior to hitting he charge setpoint.

I also have never had a supercharger stop charging prematurely. There were certainly times when the charging speed was unexpectedly slow, especially during hot summer months when we all thought either Tesla or the local utility company was throttling to conserve power. But the unexpected-stop thing might have been a problem with the charge port on that particular vehicle, especially if it was happening up to 20% of all his supercharging sessions.

 

[Electroman]

No, Elon, you, with $20,000,000,000.00 do not understand this. You can't even comprehend it. People can be assessed a late fee of one billionth (10⁻⁹) of what your net worth today is, and struggle to pay it. Nor can any of your Directors, who, for instance, one of which has received around 270,099 Tesla shares in compensation since 2011, at one point worth $102,637,620; while each Director has a net worth of maybe a fraction of yours, that would still put them possibly at 5 million times the income from Tesla that a Model 3 owner would have to pay for being 25 minutes late when a SuperCharger shuts off early for no reason without proper notification, and the Model 3 owner would struggle to pay that fee (if it is a common occurence, and maybe even if it is not).

What..?? You lost me in that rambling hate there.. Why bring up Elon's net worth and other meaningless compensation numbers of his employees in this topic?.

Just get back and pay the fees, alright..!?

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is my response to today's announcement late fees are increasing: it has 3 parts. Each one is entirely different.

I have a multi-part answer to this, which is identical to what I said when I first encountered this program in my Model S two years ago:

1. The grace period is too short. Often, you are waiting in line at a store a 5 minute walk away from the SuperCharger when the SuperCharger decides to stop working without any warning. Then, Apple Incorporated takes an extra 3 to 4 minutes to have the Tesla App notify you on the Notification Bar. Then, you must start walking back to your Tesla after a 7 minute wait in a store line. That is 7+4+5+reading time (1) minutes=17 minutes common worse-case to get back to your car in rather normal circumstances when it is Tesla's fault for stopping your charging session in the middle of a charging session for no apparent reason. That's $17 if Tesla determines that the SuperCharger is "full", often the status of SuperChargers that are only 25% full because their SuperCharger-full detection algorithms are also faulty.
   
   This lack of sufficient grace period all needs to be fixed, and pronto. Every aspect of it needs to be fixed:
   
   
   a. Get the SuperCharger detection of car SuperCharging algorithm fixed to near 100% accuracy. (Don't lie to us: everyone who follows SuperChargers on TMC knows for sure that the system to detect cars SuperChargin is very faulty and inaccurate, usually showing more use than actually using it.)
   
   b. Know the % SOC of every car SuperCharging; if the car is not at 80% or 90% and the SuperCharging gets disconnected for any reason at all other than a confirmed command from the Tesla App (not just some "claim" of a disconnect) or confirmed stopping at the console of the car by a real person (not just some programming inside the car), then that disconnection does not count; the car owner should be warned through the app and console that the SuperCharger stopped (for whatever reason), and then they should get an extra 15 minutes to go deal with that regardless of why, and in addition to any other grace periods.. Once again, do not lie to us and say that SuperCharger malfunctions are "rare": they are not rare. I had them at 20% of my SuperCharging sessions.
   
   c. 5 minutes is too short. Make the grace period have bite, but not be so draconian: At minutes 1-4, go ahead and charge nothing. Then, at minute 5, charge 10% of the per minute fee; at minute 6, charge 25% of the per minute fee; at minute 7, charge 45% of the fee; at minute 8, charge 70% of the per minute fee; and finally, at minute 9, charge 100% of the per minute fee ($0.50/minute if the SC is not full, and $1/minute if it is full). If the SC is full, that would be $0.10 at minute 5, another $0.25 at minute 6, another $0.45 at minute 7, another $0.70 at minute 8, and another $1 at minutes 9 onward. So, if you RUN back with your coffee spilling everywhere and knocking other people over at the grocery store and dashing in front of cars driving through parking lots and spill coffee on your clothing and get back to your car at minute 8 at a full SuperCharger, you have cumulatively racked up a late fee of $0.10+$0.25+$0.45+$0.70=$1.50. That is not as much bite as $4, BUT people will KNOW that EVERY minute after that is another $1, so, for instance, if that same person walked back to the SuperCharger and it took an additional 3 minutes, then that late fee would be $4.50, which has real bite. If they came back a full 15 minutes late with the above scheme to a full SuperCharger, then the late fee would be a sizable $8.50, which is sure to hurt everyone except the most rich, which you can't get to anyway. If they are obstinant for a whole 20 minutes, they would be charged $13.50. If they dilly-dally for half an hour, their charge is a cool $23.50. Model 3 owners do not want to be charged $5 for getting back 10 minutes after a charging session completed. $3.50 is OK; $5 is pushing it really hard into Tesla being EVIL territory, like Google, Facebook, and Netflix.
   
   I'd be in favor of the ramped-fee style in (c) being tuned about 1-2 minutes earlier; that is, $0.10 for minute #4 rather than minute #5.
   
   d. Estimates in the console for when the SuperCharge session completes are woefully wrong. It often starts with "45 minutes to complete charge", then when you step out of your car, ten minutes later it is giving you a notification that it has only 5 minutes left to complete charging. If you are a middle-income person and see that notice while in line to buy something, what do you think your opinion of Tesla will be at that very moment, when you think about having to drop your purchase items on the floor, run, knocking people over in the store and in the parking lot, and running back to your car, having to stop at every parking lot and street crossing so you don't get run over? You will think of Tesla as being very evil.​
   
   No, Elon, you, with $20,000,000,000.00 do not understand this. You can't even comprehend it. People can be assessed a late fee of one billionth (10⁻⁹) of what your net worth today is, and struggle to pay it. Nor can any of your Directors, who, for instance, one of which has received around 270,099 Tesla shares in compensation since 2011, at one point worth $102,637,620; while each Director has a net worth of maybe a fraction of yours, that would still put them possibly at 5 million times the income from Tesla that a Model 3 owner would have to pay for being 25 minutes late when a SuperCharger shuts off early for no reason without proper notification, and the Model 3 owner would struggle to pay that fee (if it is a common occurence, and maybe even if it is not).
   
   Granted, someone paying $100 of late fees per year is not a huge burden; I'm talking about common SuperCharger and policy errors that rack up to $500 when owners are not looking to incur such a fee. It's all in the numbers, and that is excessive. You can have a program with bite without it being penalistic of Tesla faults or normal life activities. Have a real true understanding of the value of money, Elon.
   
   Ok, my #2:
   
2. I am all in favor of the fees being raised to $1 after a sufficient and accurate grace period. Late fees should definitely be effective.
   
   
3. It should not be "$1 for SuperCharger full, $0.50 for not full"; what constitutes full? It should just be a flat $1 * % full; for instance, if it is a 10 spot SuperCharger and 4 spots are occupied, the fee should be $0.40/minute (after the 8th minute). If 8 spots are occupied, then the fee should be $0.80/minute (after the 8th minute). That way, a human being subjectively looking at "how full" any SuperCharger is (and probably will be by the time they get back) will understand when the fee exactly tracks the fullness of the SuperCharger. They should not be slammed for parking at a 75% full SuperCharger that has 40 positions and 10 of them are currently empty, so there is literally NO reason to leave early, since there is AMPLE room for 10 new SuperChargers in addition to anyone already there (so others could leave earlier and even more cars could come with no impact); even in my ramped grace period proportional fullness suggestion, people returning to a 75% full SuperCharger with 10 empty spots would be charged late fees, so don't worry, the action of the program would still illicit a response from owners to avoid being late, rather than fear being late. Fear begets rebellion, sabatoge, vandalism, counterproductivity, and HIGHER COST AND LOWER SATISFACTION AND MARKET SHARE FOR TESLA; regular habit begets happiness, politeness, good feelings, good function, and economically improved output. The difference is something that is probably a hair-bredth's worth of a nuance to someone of your income, Elon.

That's everything I said two years ago, and I repeat it now, since it is still true. All of it.

Complete nonsense... just follow the common courtesy to move your car when done supercharging. Simple really

 

[RayW]

Here is my response to today's announcement late fees are increasing: it has 3 parts. Each one is entirely different.


I have a multi-part answer to this, which is identical to what I said when I first encountered this program in my Model S two years ago:

1. The grace period is too short. Often, you are waiting in line at a store a 5 minute walk away from the SuperCharger when the SuperCharger decides to stop working without any warning. Then, Apple Incorporated takes an extra 3 to 4 minutes to have the Tesla App notify you on the Notification Bar. Then, you must start walking back to your Tesla after a 7 minute wait in a store line. That is 7+4+5+reading time (1) minutes=17 minutes common worse-case to get back to your car in rather normal circumstances when it is Tesla's fault for stopping your charging session in the middle of a charging session for no apparent reason. That's $17 if Tesla determines that the SuperCharger is "full", often the status of SuperChargers that are only 25% full because their SuperCharger-full detection algorithms are also faulty.
   
   This lack of sufficient grace period all needs to be fixed, and pronto. Every aspect of it needs to be fixed:
   
   
   a. Get the SuperCharger detection of car SuperCharging algorithm fixed to near 100% accuracy. (Don't lie to us: everyone who follows SuperChargers on TMC knows for sure that the system to detect cars SuperChargin is very faulty and inaccurate, usually showing more use than actually using it.)
   
   b. Know the % SOC of every car SuperCharging; if the car is not at 80% or 90% and the SuperCharging gets disconnected for any reason at all other than a confirmed command from the Tesla App (not just some "claim" of a disconnect) or confirmed stopping at the console of the car by a real person (not just some programming inside the car), then that disconnection does not count; the car owner should be warned through the app and console that the SuperCharger stopped (for whatever reason), and then they should get an extra 15 minutes to go deal with that regardless of why, and in addition to any other grace periods.. Once again, do not lie to us and say that SuperCharger malfunctions are "rare": they are not rare. I had them at 20% of my SuperCharging sessions.
   
   c. 5 minutes is too short. Make the grace period have bite, but not be so draconian: At minutes 1-4, go ahead and charge nothing. Then, at minute 5, charge 10% of the per minute fee; at minute 6, charge 25% of the per minute fee; at minute 7, charge 45% of the fee; at minute 8, charge 70% of the per minute fee; and finally, at minute 9, charge 100% of the per minute fee ($0.50/minute if the SC is not full, and $1/minute if it is full). If the SC is full, that would be $0.10 at minute 5, another $0.25 at minute 6, another $0.45 at minute 7, another $0.70 at minute 8, and another $1 at minutes 9 onward. So, if you RUN back with your coffee spilling everywhere and knocking other people over at the grocery store and dashing in front of cars driving through parking lots and spill coffee on your clothing and get back to your car at minute 8 at a full SuperCharger, you have cumulatively racked up a late fee of $0.10+$0.25+$0.45+$0.70=$1.50. That is not as much bite as $4, BUT people will KNOW that EVERY minute after that is another $1, so, for instance, if that same person walked back to the SuperCharger and it took an additional 3 minutes, then that late fee would be $4.50, which has real bite. If they came back a full 15 minutes late with the above scheme to a full SuperCharger, then the late fee would be a sizable $8.50, which is sure to hurt everyone except the most rich, which you can't get to anyway. If they are obstinant for a whole 20 minutes, they would be charged $13.50. If they dilly-dally for half an hour, their charge is a cool $23.50. Model 3 owners do not want to be charged $5 for getting back 10 minutes after a charging session completed. $3.50 is OK; $5 is pushing it really hard into Tesla being EVIL territory, like Google, Facebook, and Netflix.
   
   I'd be in favor of the ramped-fee style in (c) being tuned about 1-2 minutes earlier; that is, $0.10 for minute #4 rather than minute #5.
   
   d. Estimates in the console for when the SuperCharge session completes are woefully wrong. It often starts with "45 minutes to complete charge", then when you step out of your car, ten minutes later it is giving you a notification that it has only 5 minutes left to complete charging. If you are a middle-income person and see that notice while in line to buy something, what do you think your opinion of Tesla will be at that very moment, when you think about having to drop your purchase items on the floor, run, knocking people over in the store and in the parking lot, and running back to your car, having to stop at every parking lot and street crossing so you don't get run over? You will think of Tesla as being very evil.​
   
   No, Elon, you, with $20,000,000,000.00 do not understand this. You can't even comprehend it. People can be assessed a late fee of one billionth (10⁻⁹) of what your net worth today is, and struggle to pay it. Nor can any of your Directors, who, for instance, one of which has received around 270,099 Tesla shares in compensation since 2011, at one point worth $102,637,620; while each Director has a net worth of maybe a fraction of yours, that would still put them possibly at 5 million times the income from Tesla that a Model 3 owner would have to pay for being 25 minutes late when a SuperCharger shuts off early for no reason without proper notification, and the Model 3 owner would struggle to pay that fee (if it is a common occurence, and maybe even if it is not).
   
   Granted, someone paying $100 of late fees per year is not a huge burden; I'm talking about common SuperCharger and policy errors that rack up to $500 when owners are not looking to incur such a fee. It's all in the numbers, and that is excessive. You can have a program with bite without it being penalistic of Tesla faults or normal life activities. Have a real true understanding of the value of money, Elon.
   
   Ok, my #2:
   
2. I am all in favor of the fees being raised to $1 after a sufficient and accurate grace period. Late fees should definitely be effective.
   
   
3. It should not be "$1 for SuperCharger full, $0.50 for not full"; what constitutes full? It should just be a flat $1 * % full; for instance, if it is a 10 spot SuperCharger and 4 spots are occupied, the fee should be $0.40/minute (after the 8th minute). If 8 spots are occupied, then the fee should be $0.80/minute (after the 8th minute). That way, a human being subjectively looking at "how full" any SuperCharger is (and probably will be by the time they get back) will understand when the fee exactly tracks the fullness of the SuperCharger. They should not be slammed for parking at a 75% full SuperCharger that has 40 positions and 10 of them are currently empty, so there is literally NO reason to leave early, since there is AMPLE room for 10 new SuperChargers in addition to anyone already there (so others could leave earlier and even more cars could come with no impact); even in my ramped grace period proportional fullness suggestion, people returning to a 75% full SuperCharger with 10 empty spots would be charged late fees, so don't worry, the action of the program would still illicit a response from owners to avoid being late, rather than fear being late. Fear begets rebellion, sabatoge, vandalism, counterproductivity, and HIGHER COST AND LOWER SATISFACTION AND MARKET SHARE FOR TESLA; regular habit begets happiness, politeness, good feelings, good function, and economically improved output. The difference is something that is probably a hair-bredth's worth of a nuance to someone of your income, Elon.

That's everything I said two years ago, and I repeat it now, since it is still true. All of it.

Good thing you understand the latency and uncertainty associated with charging status at your phone.... you have no excuse for incurring an idling fee.

 

[apacheguy]

In 50+ supercharging sessions, I've never had a supercharger stop prior to hitting he charge setpoint.

I’ve definitely had a SpC quit out on me. Was a while ago, though, and they do seem to be more reliable than they used to be.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Edit: (Sorry, I just realized that I responded to page 1of a year old topic, but what I wrote below, still applies. Don’t judge, because you don’t know someone’s situation . I’ve Supercharged locally 2-3 times because, I simply forgot to plug in at home.)

Funny, I’ve been to both Oxnard and Cabazon. Cabazon because I needed a charge coming back from Joshua Tree to Orange County and at Oxnard when going from Orange County to Cambria. I didn’t know I was doing it wrong and that I was being judged by others. Geesh leave the car, get something to eat, come back with some packages and leave. 35-45 minutes, tops. Still less than a 90% charge.

Just because I grabbed some shopping bags out of my frunk and heads towards Whole Foods to get pricey road snacks (in Oxnard), doesn’t mean that I am a local, or that I won’t be back within 20-35 minutes (enough charge to get me to Buelton or SLO). How can anyone know?

We’ve got to stop judging. There are a lot of Tesla’s now (at least in SoCal), and none of us know the other drivers situation. Just because a SC is full doesn’t mean everyone there is a local, or an inconsiderate a-hole.

The Tesloop people, yeah, it bugs me, but hey, they were pretty smart, and have bought a lot of Tesla’s. I only partially hold that against them when I hear they use up all the SCs.

 

[tomas]

Edit: (Sorry, I just realized that I responded to page 1of a year old topic, but what I wrote below, still applies. Don’t judge, because you don’t know someone’s situation . I’ve Supercharged locally 2-3 times because, I simply forgot to plug in at home.)

Funny, I’ve been to both Oxnard and Cabazon. Cabazon because I needed a charge coming back from Joshua Tree to Orange County and at Oxnard when going from Orange County to Cambria. I didn’t know I was doing it wrong and that I was being judged by others. Geesh leave the car, get something to eat, come back with some packages and leave. 35-45 minutes, tops. Still less than a 90% charge.

Just because I grabbed some shopping bags out of my frunk and heads towards Whole Foods to get pricey road snacks (in Oxnard), doesn’t mean that I am a local, or that I won’t be back within 20-35 minutes (enough charge to get me to Buelton or SLO). How can anyone know?

We’ve got to stop judging. There are a lot of Tesla’s now (at least in SoCal), and none of us know the other drivers situation. Just because a SC is full doesn’t mean everyone there is a local, or an inconsiderate a-hole.

The Tesloop people, yeah, it bugs me, but hey, they were pretty smart, and have bought a lot of Tesla’s. I only partially hold that against them when I hear they use up all the SCs.

I said "I'm sure some are legit, but not all" precisely because you can never tell for sure. But I'm free to deduce and hypothesize. I'm at that supercharger several times per month because I need a few kWh on way back from LA. weekdays, empty. Sundays, full. I'm just using reasonable deduction regarding cause. I can "deduce" a 90% certain traveller easily: dressed comfortably for a long drive; probably stretching when they get out of car, headed to grocery or restaurant if going anywhere. I can also deduce a 90% probable local shopper when a family in sunday best walks back to car loaded with bags from retail. Never for certain, but most probably.

I will "judge". While I cannot identify them for certain, I will "judge" that locals who use local SCs when they do not need to are bad for all of us... I like Tesla's new idle charges.

 

[Don TLR]

I think some SCs they should charge for plugging in, idling or not.

Basically keep all highway SCs free but charge for the ones that are in the malls and downtown and such.

Really? There are plenty of chargers that I "Needed" to use that just happened to be at a mall on my last 2500 mile trip..

 

[J1mbo]

I normally get a notification/warning when the car is about 10% away from complete. Plenty of time to get back to the car.. that last 10% is sooo slow

 

[Merrill]

What is the big deal, your car is done charging go move it!

 

[Electroman]

Really? There are plenty of chargers that I "Needed" to use that just happened to be at a mall on my last 2500 mile trip..

yes, pay for using those SCs