One thing giving me hope that 10.69.3 will be on 2022.28 or higher is that it looks like 2022.36 is going to be rolled out in the next couple of weeks. I can't see them keeping people on .20 while .36 is being rolled out. Maybe I'm just being optimistic though..
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Tesla evidently has a safety recall out over an issue with the windows. It sounds like it’s just a software update so I wonder if they’ll patch the current FSD build or update it at the same time?
Yea, probably an "invisible" (Cell/no WiFi connection required) Delta update since it is unrelated to the MCU/UI or FSD. I think this has been done this way before (or just a BAD memory
) like the Consumer Report's Brake update and other Safety Recall updates.
hybridbear
Active Member
Today we drove just under 300 miles of mostly rural two-lane highways & four-lane divided highway that isn't a controlled access freeway. It was surprisingly bad. 10.12.2 did much better. The braking for curves was much less smooth. There were lots of phantom braking incidents for oncoming traffic. And it kept trying to drive into right turn lanes instead of continuing straight on the highway. First it was 9 months of disappointment from when the first Safety Score cars got FSD Beta until we finally got it due to needing RCCB camera updates. Now it's almost 4 months of disappointment driving with FSD Beta at how bad it is for us compared to what I see others post in YouTube videos.
old pilot
Member
I have been using FSD beta almost every day for short and long trips on highways and city driving. I have had disengagements and used the accelerator from time to time. Most disengagements were the result of disagreeing with a lane change that I felt was to close to an upcoming turn but because I disconnected FSD I cannot say with certainty it would not have been successful. I had three friends riding in the car on two different days. One trip was of short duration maybe 5 miles round trip and the other 70 miles round trip. The shorter trip went very well making both left and right protected and unprotected turns. I was impressed with the performance and ask the passengers for their opinion. One in the rear seat was very surprised and pleased with the drive and said he felt comfortable throughout the ride, the other in the passenger seat did not feel as comfortable but stated she did not like or trust the technology even before seeing how the car drove. The second drive with an engineer friend was longer and on both interstate and city roads. There were some interventions, once again with lane decisions I felt would not work for upcoming turns and some use of the accelerator to get things moving more quickly but once again I and my passenger felt it went very well. The traffic on this trip was very heavy in places and presented more complex decisions. When I felt the FSD might have difficulty in places I did disconnect prior to the decision being made by FSD. I did not have to disconnect for turns or stops and there was no phantom slowing that would cause discomfort. I did not have to disconnect for anything I felt was unsafe.
hybridbear
Active Member
Have you ever tried using the turn signal when it's making a lane change you don't agree with? When I see on the display that it is going to change lanes or it starts to turn on the blinker for a lane change I don't want I've found that pushing the turn signal stalk in the opposite direction cancels the lane change or prevents it from happening in the first place. I do this quite often. I also sometimes want it to change lanes & I use the turn signal to tell it to change lanes even when FSD Beta is content to stay in the lane it's in.
One thing I've disliked since the start of using FSD Beta many months ago is that it waits way too long to start braking for stop signs or red lights. I will never use the brake pedal until the last few MPH before a complete stop, doing all my slowing down with regen. Since I've been driving hybrids since 2011 & EVs since 2014 I'm very accustomed to regen braking & maximizing by regen. FSD Beta waits too long to begin slowing & then has to use the friction brakes because regen alone will not stop in time. I've verified this by lightly resting my foot on the brake pedal when it's going to stop & I can feel the brake pedal depressing. This is another big issue with FSD Beta. When I recently washed our car I couldn't believe how much brake dust there was on the front wheels, but it's because of FSD Beta using the friction brakes excessively. The issue isn't that the car can't see the lights. It will show a red light on the display & still keep accelerating. I use the stalk to lower the set speed but since it doesn't slow down it will even still accelerate even though I have set the speed slower than the current speed.
For example, the main road near our house is 40 MPH & 3 lanes wide each direction. Traffic typically is going 45+. But since it's a dense urban environment there is literally a traffic light every single block. If I see that the next light a block away is red I'm not going to keep accelerating to maintain my 45 MPH speed, but I'll start gradually slowing down well in advance. I'll even start lowering my set speed down to 25 MPH or lower, but the car will keep accelerating to maintain the 45 MPH speed. And when it does start to slow down it won't go into regen, it'll just have less power going to the wheels & less of an orange line on the dash circle graph, but it's still expending power instead of slowing down. This then causes it to have to use the friction brakes instead of stopping with regen only.
Could be that the people we see on YouTube do this all the time and report more than the average person here and therefore have had those routes improved possibly.
Yes. And you don't have to be a long time hybrid/EV user. Our first hybrid was in 2019 and the MY in 2020 but for decades, I slow down way before a light with the idea that going though (when it turns green) at the max speed is much more efficient as I don't need to add as many mph back. Even when I had Mustang & 300zx convertibles, when I wasn't having fun, I tried to eek out as much mpg as I could.
BTW You don't need to rest your foot on the brake pedal anymore. With the current FSDb you can see the physical brake when the green line turns gray.
Jmolloy3
Member
old pilot
Member
I am aware that using the turn signal will cancel the turn or lane change however it is my experience that this is a temporary fix and the car will continue to try to change lanes. So I disconnect FSD and then reconnect a short time later. I have experienced similar problems as you with stopping and regen braking as well as accelerations and rapid slowing at the last minute. I agree, all these things need to be corrected but looking at it from a functioning auto driving system point of view it does work sometimes well and sometimes not so well but it does work better than it did 6 months ago.
Implied turning lanes: when FSD approaches a stop sign in a single lane, it moves to dead center to stop and initiate the turn. This irks the people behind, who no doubt do not think highly of Tesla drivers and Teslas in general. You can’t just shrug your shoulders and point to the computer screen. Human drivers will imply turning lanes and hug the center for a left turn and the curb for a right. Seems like an east fix to me.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I solve this by not editing.
I think it is somewhat better at turning smoothly though it still screws up sometimes. Also it does seem to know to some extent what it cannot see which is a big building block. Otherwise very similar performance yes, as we all expected.
hybridbear
Active Member
I've noticed this with the 3/Y in YouTube videos. We have a legacy Model S with the vertical screen. So our power meter display is on the dash & is a 3/4 circle with orange for power & green for regen. The legacy display has not been updated with the gray/green line the 3/Y have & knowing Tesla I'm sure it never will be, just like how we'll never get side repeater cameras with the turn signal that the horizontal screen cars have.
This is another great point & one of the robotic things that FSD Beta does.
I've done this with some videos I've uploaded, but when I want to combine the TeslaCam video of FSD Beta taking off when a traffic light is red (for example) with my BlackVue dashcam footage showing the same light & hearing the disengagement chimes as well as showing how the BlackVue "sees" the LED traffic lights compared to how the Tesla camera "sees" the traffic light that would require some editing. I hope to find time to do that. I have footage saved of that bad behavior from 10.12.2. Both the car taking off after stopping for red lights & not really slowing down at all for a red light, and also footage of it completely ignoring stop signs. Yesterday on 10.69.2 it ignored a stop sign on a country road. I hit the brake pedal & also hit the camera button for the clip to send it to the AP team. I don't know why it decided to ignore the stop sign, it was slow to show it on the visualization, but even once it did show it on the screen the car never slowed down on its own.
hybridbear
Active Member
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I'd guess that the vision system looks for a stop sign on a pole without other signage. Here's a good summary of the MUTCD regarding posting other information on a stop sign pole:
Can Multiple Traffic Signs Be Mounted on the Same Post?
In this post, we're going to reveal whether multiple traffic signs can be mounted on the same post. Click Here to Learn More!
www.mailboxesandsigns.com
I'd send your video to fsdbeta at Tesla dot com.
Hmm. "Right Turn No Stop". So it could have run the stop sign if going right - assuming it knew about the notice, which could be doubtful at this stage. Anyway it went straight so should have stopped.
I would hope it wouldn't be confused by multiple signage at the same location, it's still a stop sign which it seems to have been trained to notice. All the other signs there it may be ignoring for now, but it should recognize the Stop.
hybridbear
Active Member
I'd guess that the vision system looks for a stop sign on a pole without other signage. Here's a good summary of the MUTCD regarding posting other information on a stop sign pole:
Can Multiple Traffic Signs Be Mounted on the Same Post?
In this post, we're going to reveal whether multiple traffic signs can be mounted on the same post. Click Here to Learn More!
I'd send your video to fsdbeta at Tesla dot com.
I wonder if map data doesn't include a stop sign at this location & the vision system struggled to see the stop sign because it was in the shadow. By the time it displayed it on the visualization it could've done a hard stop, but it didn't even try. Because I've had other situations where map data includes a stop sign & the car slows down even though the stop sign is occluded & isn't visible until late. In those cases I know the map data is helping because the car starts slowing even though the stop sign is not visible. But here I wonder if map data worked against the car because map data indicated no stop sign so the vision system didn't pick it up very well because it was unexpected & was in a shadow.
old pilot
Member
Driving on two lane road with little traffic except for a rural postal delivery van. Car approaches from rear and postal van stops to put mail in box, car stops and then begins to pass on left, no opposing traffic, as I pull along side of the van it starts to move forward toward the next mail box I expect to car to stay in the left lane however it begins to move right, as though not seeing the vehicle to its right had begun to move forward. Took over very quickly to avoid an Oshit moment.
hybridbear
Active Member
Looks like a failure to recognize the correct light. At about 4 seconds it looks like a red light ahead and a green light to the right.
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