The turn right to turn left seems to be an overfit of Chuck's ULT. And you are correct, I've seen several cases where it's worse now.
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
zoomer0056
Active Member
People do it, maybe NN training is learning from bad examples. I've never understood why people do that. It's done without thinking.
You will find Highway driving fine, save for on and off ramp F’d behavior. “City streets” FSDb = Junk.
This behavior is listed in the release notes as intentional. Problem is they overcorrected, iIt went from blocking the entire lane by sitting in the middle to straddling the white line when the shoulder is wide. It's still decent for stop signs on city streets, but when you get out on roads with wide shoulders and stoplights, it gets pretty stupid.
I don't know about Raven and newer, but pre-Raven S & X have a latching second level, so if you push it that far, it locks in and you have to turn until it releases or manually break it out.
I've actually seen a lot of improvements on my city streets and on/off ramps. Maybe they removed those for 11.3.4.
10.69.2.5 works pretty well. With all of the issues reported here, I'm sticking with that version for a while.
It looks like the option to turn off NOA and use AP is gone. One of the bugs in my current version is odd lane changes when I don't want them. Being able to simply turn off NOA on that stretch is important to me.
It looks like the option to turn off NOA and use AP is gone. One of the bugs in my current version is odd lane changes when I don't want them. Being able to simply turn off NOA on that stretch is important to me.
Do we need to set up a Tesla software update support group so we can all take turns saying Hi my name is Bob, it's been x months since my last software update.
This is a three way “Y” intersection with double yellow centerlines in a school zone - a clearly stated earlier. You can’t defend the FSDb behavior here as it’s just inappropriate crap - Full stop. Moving on…This behavior is listed in the release notes as intentional. Problem is they overcorrected, iIt went from blocking the entire lane by sitting in the middle to straddling the white line when the shoulder is wide. It's still decent for stop signs on city streets, but when you get out on roads with wide shoulders and stoplights, it gets pretty stupid.
I don't know about Raven and newer, but pre-Raven S & X have a latching second level, so if you push it that far, it locks in and you have to turn until it releases or manually break it out.
I've actually seen a lot of improvements on my city streets and on/off ramps. Maybe they removed those for 11.3.4.
@WilliamG
My first tests of 11.3.4 over the weekend, overall impressions:
1. Overall, it seems like a big positive step forward. A lot subtle-ish things got much smoother/better even on city streets, and the new highway code drives much more naturally than NoA did when cruising in traffic.
2. Love the right-scroll wheel adjustment to switch chill/average/assertive and button to temporarily minimize lane changes. That's super-helpful at this stage!
3. The many lane-choice issues don't seem to have improved, sadly. Sometimes it doesn't get into the correct lane early enough for an upcoming turn, leading to predictable problems merging into slowing traffic later. Sometimes when a single lane splits in two shortly before a right turn, it choses to split left first, then immediately lane-change back to the right. etc. This stuff is just as bad as it was on 10.69.
As for "new" issues:
1. While some stop-sign intersections are being handled better on the "when and how to take off after stopping" part, I've had a couple isolated cases where an upcoming stop-sign (on a ~35mph road) is clearly visible from a great distance, yet it waits until waaaaay too late to even begin slowing for it, resulting in an unacceptably-aggressive stop once it gets there. I was on "assertive", but I don't expect "assertive" to mean "drive like an idiot and slam on the brakes at the last second for stop signs"
2. In at least a couple of cases, I've observed it fail to take a right-on-red that it used to take before. It comes to a stop at the red light and seems to be waiting for a green, even though there's no visible oncoming cross traffic. Had to go-pedal it through to avoid angering the stack of cars behind me. I didn't wait for more than a few seconds, but it was already very unnatural, so I'm not sure if it would've eventually gone or not.
3. Onramp/offramp speeds for highways seem to have new issues that make it unacceptable in traffic. Common scenarios here have e.g. a feeder road at say 45mph with ramps to a freeway at say 75mph. When onramping, it seems to hang onto the feeder speed setting until the very end of the ramp, then suddenly switch to highway limit just as it's merging. This is very abnormal and traffic-disrupting here, as everyone expects that we all start accelerating at the start of the onramp. Similarly, with some off-ramps, I've seen it start slowing down what seems like maybe up to 1/8 mile /before/ entering the offramp, whereas normal human behavior here is to maintain highway speed till your car is out of the highway lane, then begin slowing (I think I saw this latter problem a little bit on 10.69 as well, but it seems more-pronounced now). I imagine this is all somehow inter-related with the NHSTA fixes for limit-change reactions, etc.
Still, overall, it really seems like things are improving in the right directions, and my disengages are much fewer!
1. Overall, it seems like a big positive step forward. A lot subtle-ish things got much smoother/better even on city streets, and the new highway code drives much more naturally than NoA did when cruising in traffic.
2. Love the right-scroll wheel adjustment to switch chill/average/assertive and button to temporarily minimize lane changes. That's super-helpful at this stage!
3. The many lane-choice issues don't seem to have improved, sadly. Sometimes it doesn't get into the correct lane early enough for an upcoming turn, leading to predictable problems merging into slowing traffic later. Sometimes when a single lane splits in two shortly before a right turn, it choses to split left first, then immediately lane-change back to the right. etc. This stuff is just as bad as it was on 10.69.
As for "new" issues:
1. While some stop-sign intersections are being handled better on the "when and how to take off after stopping" part, I've had a couple isolated cases where an upcoming stop-sign (on a ~35mph road) is clearly visible from a great distance, yet it waits until waaaaay too late to even begin slowing for it, resulting in an unacceptably-aggressive stop once it gets there. I was on "assertive", but I don't expect "assertive" to mean "drive like an idiot and slam on the brakes at the last second for stop signs"
2. In at least a couple of cases, I've observed it fail to take a right-on-red that it used to take before. It comes to a stop at the red light and seems to be waiting for a green, even though there's no visible oncoming cross traffic. Had to go-pedal it through to avoid angering the stack of cars behind me. I didn't wait for more than a few seconds, but it was already very unnatural, so I'm not sure if it would've eventually gone or not.
3. Onramp/offramp speeds for highways seem to have new issues that make it unacceptable in traffic. Common scenarios here have e.g. a feeder road at say 45mph with ramps to a freeway at say 75mph. When onramping, it seems to hang onto the feeder speed setting until the very end of the ramp, then suddenly switch to highway limit just as it's merging. This is very abnormal and traffic-disrupting here, as everyone expects that we all start accelerating at the start of the onramp. Similarly, with some off-ramps, I've seen it start slowing down what seems like maybe up to 1/8 mile /before/ entering the offramp, whereas normal human behavior here is to maintain highway speed till your car is out of the highway lane, then begin slowing (I think I saw this latter problem a little bit on 10.69 as well, but it seems more-pronounced now). I imagine this is all somehow inter-related with the NHSTA fixes for limit-change reactions, etc.
Still, overall, it really seems like things are improving in the right directions, and my disengages are much fewer!
KArnold
Active Member
Anyone know if/how this works on legacy MS/MX? Doesn't seem it would be the right scroll wheel as that currently adjusts fan speed.
KArnold
Active Member
I'd expect assertive to be "get there asap". Seems it's doing that. One's "drive like an idiot" could be my grandma's status quo. There may well be a valid use case for such a behavior.
Obviously that's somewhat subjective. Personally I like the car commiting to a decision and accelerate/slow quickly, especially compared to cars next to you. Appears to be a good idea to make that choice an option. How would you suggest "aggressive" stop in such situations if not aggressively?
I would not expect other modes to stop like that.
FWIW, I don't yet have v11 as I'm among the legacy owners that Tesla consistently ignores, so I don't have 1st hand experience.
That's basically the #fsd channel on the tesla discord. We bitch about not getting updates, then get one and complain about how it doesn't fix everything, then go back to bitching about not getting updates.Do we need to set up a Tesla software update support group so we can all take turns saying Hi my name is Bob, it's been x months since my last software update.
Oh, and there I thought this was the place for bitching...
I don't get the FSD options on my current-ish Model S either.
khorton
Member
11.3.4 (2022.45.14) has an option in the Autopilot menu titled "Minimal Lane Changes" which effectively replaces the NOA toggle. It is described as "When enabled, Full Self-Driving (Beta) will limit lane changes only to follow navigation route or when required for safety. This option gets reset when car is parked at the end of a drive."
This option seems to work on both the highway and city streets. You can use the turn signal to command a lane change when you want. The only downside is you need to enable it for every drive. You can select or deselect it while driving, at the cost of four taps on the screen.
zoomer0056
Active Member
There needs to be a save settings button with ability to save with a name.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It does this because it is preparing for the stance in the median area. Which it shouldn't use, of course, but for some reason Tesla thought it was a good idea. Just roll it! Much safer.
April 3rd redo - 12 mile round trip to CU, same intersection as yesterday Conditions: Wet roads and over cast. Speed limit ranging from 20mph (School zone) to 45mph
FSDb Profile: Aggressive
Decided to head out during school bus hour; just to add stress to my day.... First and foremost - FSDb DOES NOT recognize flashing school zone 20 MPH speed limit signs, warnings or other. If you are not paying attention, you could easily fly through these zones at the non school time speeds listed for these roads - and, subject yourself to some steep fines 'ta boot. Similarly, children getting on and off of school buses remains unsafe - no recognition (by FSDb) of the school bus, flashing red lights and swing out school bus stop
signs. COMPLETE Trash. Personally, I would endorse the government recalling this "junk" sooner than later (save for the highway part).Next, same behavior at this intersection as yesterday (replied to message above), but I was ready for it.... What I was not ready for was what happened shortly after completing the left turn... FSDb decided it didn't like the traffic in front of me (while moving at about 10mph) and jerked the wheel (Yoke) from my loose grip and jumped across the double yellow line into oncoming traffic lane. Good thing I was paying attention. Oh, and of course, the disengagement voice recording message didn't pop up this time. I forced one a few feet later by reengaging FSDb and then slamming on the brakes. Left them a choice message, I did.
I'm no longer going to use this version of FSDb - too unsafe to use in my area. No joke or exaggeration. Be safe out there, all!
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Doesn't seem to work on the Refreshed Model S with Yoke. Tried every combo possible with the right scroll wheel. J
@WilliamG
I think that's a wise choice - you've had too many poor experiences with FSD Beta to continue using it. I used to chastise people for requesting access to the Beta and then not using it, as they were wasting valuable telemetry and potentially taking a spot from someone else, but now since it's available for all who purchased/subscribed to it now (with the correct hardware), you can wait and test each update as they're released and see if there's improvement.
Conditions: Wet roads and over cast. Speed limit ranging from 20mph (School zone) to 45mph
FSDb Profile: Agressive
Decided to head out during school bus hour; just to add stress to my day.... First and foremost - FSDb DOES NOT recognize flashing school zone 20 MPH speed limit signs, warnings or other. If you are not paying attention, you could easily fly through these zones at the non school time speeds listed for these roads - and, subject yourself to some steep fines 'ta boot. Similarly, children getting on and off of school buses remains unsafe - no recognition (by FSDb) of the school bus, flashing red lights and swing out school bus stop
Next, same behavior at this intersection as yesterday (replied to message above), but I was ready for it.... What I was not ready for was what happened shortly after completing the left turn... FSDb decided it didn't like the traffic in front of me (while moving at about 10mph) and jerked the wheel (Yoke) from my loose grip and jumped across the double yellow line into oncoming traffic lane. Good thing I was paying attention. Oh, and of course, the disengagement voice recording message didn't pop up this time. I forced one a few feet later by reengaging FSDb and then slamming on the brakes. Left them a choice message, I did.
I'm no longer going to use this version of FSDb - too unsafe to use in my area. No joke or exaggeration. Be safe out there, all!
I know you're frustrated, but please understand that there are many people who have excellent experiences with FSD Beta. Your blanket statement that you would endorse a recall of FSD Beta (removing it from everyone's car) would impact lots of people who enjoy using Beta. You'd feel vindicated, but others would feel angry/depressed/resentful at losing something they liked. Try to look at the whole picture, and a balanced approach.
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