I would say that there is no possible case until Tesla delivers the full FSD feature set. Up until then it is possible for them to deliver FSD on AP2/AP2.5.
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MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021
- Thread starter Adirondack_D
- Start date
And in case you missed it... that was my point!
Tesla pumping up the price of the used cars in it's inventory led to the price of ALL used Tesla being higher than they would have been if Tesla didn't put FSD on all of its used inventory cars. I was 100% serious when I said I looked at used inventory cars and a used inventory car with the exact same configuration I was looking for (plus FSD which I was not interested in) with tens of thousand of miles of use was the exact same price as a new one with 50 miles of that exact same configuration without FSD. This pushes new car sales and inflates the values of your brand on the used market.
Keith
And after my 1 month trial next month I may agree with you 100%... and it will only have cost me $200 to learn it, not $10,000
I already know that my wife who does zero % of the driving on cross country trips thinks I am wasting $200.Keith
Actually, it is 100% miss, not hit or miss. No Tesla comes with cross traffic alert. You are expected to back into parking spaces apparently according to other members of this forum.
Keith
I always found this amusing. From everything I have read it isn't just EAP it is AP itself that is meant for the highway.
Tesla has disclaimers everywhere than AP is only to be used on limited access roads (highways/freeways). They could easily disable AP in the places they say it is not to be used, but they don't do that. Instead they limit AP speed to 5 mph over the limit on all roads that are not highways/freeways... simply put they don't want the legal responsibility of you driving on AP on non-limited access roads, but they want the data produced by you using AP on non-limited access roads.
As I have said before, we are all Beta testers. The "FSD Beta testers" are actually Alpha testers.
Keith
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What..?? What rock have you been living under? What makes you think that $200/month is just for auto lane change and stopping at lights?
Probably more like everyone in Amerika with a Model S,3,X,Y with at least AP HW2.
Apologies if this has been mentioned, but genuine question. It seems more people are planning on buying this to use for long upcoming road trips. But what does FSD do over standard AP or those that have EAP? I figure the majority of long road trips are on freeways/highways, so to me, something that keeps me in my lane and automatically adjusts speeds is sufficient.
To me, the reverse would seem more appropriate - those who might be planning on doing lots of city driving would be wanting to try out FSD. But truthfully I don't have a Tesla yet, so I don't have first hand experience.
To me, the reverse would seem more appropriate - those who might be planning on doing lots of city driving would be wanting to try out FSD. But truthfully I don't have a Tesla yet, so I don't have first hand experience.
If I had EAP I would not be getting FSD for one month for a road trip. And as I said earlier, after one road trip I may decide that it isn't worth $200 to have the ability to do a lane change without dropping out of AP, and navigate on Autopilot may be more trouble than it is worth... I will see next month. If I could get Enhanced Auto Pilot via a $100 a month subscription, (or a few thousand permeant purchase) I would... since that isn't an option the FSD subscription is the only game in town to get the Enhanced AP features that I want.
Keith
I wonder what the internal numbers show. Perhaps at $10K, the take rate on the full purchases dried up. Certainly, no one in their right mind would pay $10K now for something that might work later when they could try it for $199. I think it would be fair of Tesla to offer FSD buyers the option to "convert" to the subscription model - charge me, for example, $199 x the 9 months I owned FSD ($1,800) and refund me the balance.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
If PRIVATE used car sales were equally high, then that is what the used car is actually worth since it means you can actually sell the car that high.
Since obviously people are paying that for them. Otherwise the prices would get lowered.
So I'm unsure of what your actual complaint is and why you originally claimed the incredibly high resale value of Teslas wasn't real.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It will auto-change lanes, pass slower highway traffic on its own, and follow your route including handling interchanges between highways and taking your exit for you at destination.
(that's on top of the non-highway stuff like autopark, summon, etc).
Also according to most auto safety experts, and most commercial driving instructors- since it's the objectively safer way to park a car, as you have far greater visibility when pulling out.
Teslas value of FSD is quite different from the rest of the industry. Dont believe me? Go to KBB.com (or pretty much an online price value tool) and configure pricing for a used Tesla (any year). Include FSD. Now value the same car, with without FSD. The difference isnt $10k...or even close
I have a Y (wifes) with AP, and my S (recently sold) had FSD. We've taken road trips to exact same places in both. Typically on 6 or 8 lane interstates (3-4 lanes each direction). Generally speaking, with either vehicle I get in the middle lane, set the AP or FSD to whatever speed everyone is going +5-10mph. At that point, both operate identically. For FSD, I had mine set to prompt me before it changed lanes because I found that it seemed to like to change lanes to pass more often than I would if the car wasnt on FSD. So more often than not, I'd reject its request to change lanes. Ex: Im in middle lane, car in front of me slows a bit because the car in front of it, had slowed slightly for traffic. But the left lane was open and still (temporarily) moving faster, so my FSD would want to auto change to the left lane, even though I could see ahead that the left lane was going to slow down as well for the upcoming slight traffic backup. So there was no use in changing lanes excessively. Just stay put.
There were other situations as well but I found that overall, my FSD experience on the highway was better when I was the one in control of when lane changes occurred, including when there would be a piece of old 18wheeler tire chunk straddling two lanes. More than once the auto lane change was about to occur and I had to take over so the car didnt run over that chunk of debris. I could see the debris, the cameras apparently could not...
So for me/my experience? AP was just as effective as FSD on my highway trips. Yes, when taking exit ramps, FSD would do that automatically. But it literally takes minimal/almost no effort to have your foot on the accelerator as you simultaneously turn off AP/put on your turn signal to take the exit.
So for me, is FSD worth $10k (or even $200) for a road trip? 100% no for me.
Also, in the city? I live near one main long blvd. 6 miles straight with stoplights that typically are well synched (I can hit green on 5 out of those 6 stoplights in the morning drive). The Y? I set the AP on and just let the car cruise, including cruising through all of the green lights. In the FSD car? For EACH light Im prompted to continue. I get it. Safety. Yes. But in reality, which car is more soothing to drive on that 6 mile stretch? The Y with AP.
And as far as "Smart Summon"? Even elon tweeted on Friday that it was "a cool trick". I partially agree, as it wasnt so cool the multiple times I used Smart Summon and it went up onto curbs...
Did you just pay $99 for your car to chime at you when a light turns from red to green?
Agreed. For long distance highway driving, I really don't see the need for other than basic AP. And I have driven on both basic AP in my current Model Y, and Enhanced AP in my previous Model 3. As a few others have chimed in, lane change decisions by EAP/FSD is sometimes often more annoying than useful.
FSD is best used in local driving, and it will take a looong time to get used to it. Initially for many weeks it will be stressful, until it gets smoother and you get the confidence. Same is true for AP too, but the time to get comfortable with AP is fairly short - like a week or so. But FSD I think it will take much looonger to get comfortable. And many will drop out without getting used to the nuances, strengths and minuses.
One thing that I want to point out would be this:
If you are newly subscribing to FSD, having newer used it before, please go into the owner's manual read what the features are supposed to do for you.
I see so many people misunderstanding what Traffic Light/Stop Sign Control does. The car is supposed to slow down for green lights (when no lead car is present) as a safety measure. The driver is responsible for telling the car to proceed if it is safe.
-Robert
If you are newly subscribing to FSD, having newer used it before, please go into the owner's manual read what the features are supposed to do for you.
I see so many people misunderstanding what Traffic Light/Stop Sign Control does. The car is supposed to slow down for green lights (when no lead car is present) as a safety measure. The driver is responsible for telling the car to proceed if it is safe.
-Robert
Is anyone actually paying the subscription fee for a product that doesn't exist yet?
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