Model 3 pricing and competition

[EVMeister]

I was looking at the map. The two sets you are talking about in the extreme North East are there at Castlebellingham. But there is one coming soon at Enfield West of Dublin. And what about the 8 stalls at Ballacolla and Birdhill in the South? I've also yet to see an intelligent retort from you regarding what I said about the UK situation. Or indeed the common factor across many European countries which is how many superchargers there are at one location vs. the alternative where there are usually only a couple.

Pretending the CCS network is somehow superior is ignorant, wilfully or otherwise.

 

[banned-66611]

So here is the official Tesla map. To be fair, it does show a third location that wasn't on the map I was using (Zap Map):

There are two planned sites, but then again there are lots of planned CCS sites too. If you look at something like Zap Map you can see that every single service stop on a motorway in the UK and Ireland has multiple chargers. So while there are fewer at each location, there are more overall. You can move on to the next one, don't need to detour so much, and coverage is much better.

It's just a different strategy. Aim for coverage, where as Tesla aims for big but sparsely located stations.

Anyway, back on track, the Kona is looking rather good. Cheaper, better spec, hands-free autopilot... Expecting the Niro to be pretty similar.

 

[EVMeister]

Like I said, I actually use the non-Supercharger network in the UK and it leaves a lot to be desired. When you have only 1-2 chargers which any vehicle (including those from Tesla) can use, it makes for a more stressful experience. I was left almost stranded in a Renault ZOE on Christmas Eve because the single rapid charger I could use was out of action. At the same location I have had to queue for around an hour whilst others charge up. At said location they have 8 Tesla Superchargers, exclusively for Tesla customers. Economy Class vs. First Class right there. And it's the same story at most motorway service stations here in the UK.

I've also said my piece about the competing vehicles earlier on. I see it as an apples to oranges comparison. But I wholeheartedly welcome the likes of the Kona and I think it will be a great vehicle for some users. I just think you're downplaying some clear advantages that Tesla has.

 

[ℬête Noire]

What good is a high speed charging network if one can't afford the car. That's prob the reason why cheap gas cars will be around for a long time.

I guess you need to keep working that for the few years left that'll it'll be the case? LOL

 

[seattlite2004]

Better battery warranty and better general warranty than Tesla.

They typically offer very generous warranty.

Looks like the Kia Niro will have LIFETIME warranty on its batteries and 10/100k miles on everything else.

Kia Niro Electric Now On Sale In Korea, Features Choice Of Battery Size | CleanTechnica

 

[ezevphl]

Its good that there are more options coming soon, but here is the key about that range.
FTA "385 km equals about 230 miles, but if you add in a bit of a correction factor for the more stringent EPA standard, 200 miles or fewer is more likely the number you will see when this car comes stateside."

 

[adaptabl]

Aren’t those models fully decked out at that price?

They are higher end cars

According to motor trend the Tesla handles like an Alfa Romeo Giulia, which is high praise. It is priced accordingly.

This reminds me of those threads on Bimmerfest in which someone moaned about how overpriced a bmw 330i was compared to a loaded Hyundai.

The Koreans build good cars. They, with very few exceptions, do not build fun cars. If someone wants an EV on a budget and is willing to forego some of the things Tesla does very well then have at it.

Go drive a Kia Stinger. They do make fun cars.

 

[brianman]

Looks like the Kia Niro will have LIFETIME warranty on its batteries and 10/100k miles on everything else.

Kia Niro Electric Now On Sale In Korea, Features Choice Of Battery Size | CleanTechnica

Kia Niro EV US Sales to Start in Q1 2019 - HybridCars.com
"The Kia Niro EV will go on sale in the United States in early 2019, the Korean automaker has announced."
"Pricing has not yet been announced, but you can expect the long-range version to come in at under $40,000 USD."

Exciting times.

 

[diamond.g]

They are higher end cars

Same segment though?

 

[brkaus]

In the Leaf when you let off the pedal completely it applies the friction brake as well as regen when in ePedal mode. With a little practice you can come to a stop where you want to.

Looks like the Kia Niro will have LIFETIME warranty on its batteries and 10/100k miles on everything else.

Kia Niro Electric Now On Sale In Korea, Features Choice Of Battery Size | CleanTechnica

Interesting... and nice! Wonder what the terms are? I think the Kia Soul is 10 yr/100k miles 70%. Nice to put a forever bound on the battery, but 30% loss is quite a bit. I think the Bolt was guaranteed to maintain 60% at one point, not sure what it is now.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Interesting... and nice! Wonder what the terms are? I think the Kia Soul is 10 yr/100k miles 70%. Nice to put a forever bound on the battery, but 30% loss is quite a bit. I think the Bolt was guaranteed to maintain 60% at one point, not sure what it is now.

I don't know what the Bolt started out as? Pretty sure I've got 70% (EDIT: guarantee) though, and it's a 2017 (bought Dec 2017). 70% appears to be the norm (it's what Tesla's is, too).

I suspect that Kia is counting on most of the time the rest of the vehicle falling apart first and being abandoned. It would be interesting if followed more than 1 or 2 owners (it's common to see "forever" warranties in general limited changes of ownership). It is nice of them to step up and take this risk, push that bar.

 

[banned-66611]

Its good that there are more options coming soon, but here is the key about that range.
FTA "385 km equals about 230 miles, but if you add in a bit of a correction factor for the more stringent EPA standard, 200 miles or fewer is more likely the number you will see when this car comes stateside."

That doesn't sound right. The WLTP range is 280 miles, and EPA tends to be about 15% lower than that or around 235-240 miles. The WLTP range is generally achievable with some careful driving on highways.

The Kona is rated for 300 miles WLTP and I'd expect a really solid 250 from it.

 

[banned-66611]

Like I said, I actually use the non-Supercharger network in the UK and it leaves a lot to be desired. When you have only 1-2 chargers which any vehicle (including those from Tesla) can use, it makes for a more stressful experience. I was left almost stranded in a Renault ZOE on Christmas Eve because the single rapid charger I could use was out of action. At the same location I have had to queue for around an hour whilst others charge up. At said location they have 8 Tesla Superchargers, exclusively for Tesla customers. Economy Class vs. First Class right there. And it's the same story at most motorway service stations here in the UK.

The situation in the UK is fairly crap for CCS. But at least with a 250 mile range you have plenty of options. You would have to plan quite poorly to end up reliant on just one charging location.

Many Tesla owners do several short stops, like 15-20 minutes. I'd suggest doing the same with CCS, don't wait until you are dangerously low.

 

[ezevphl]

That doesn't sound right. The WLTP range is 280 miles, and EPA tends to be about 15% lower than that or around 235-240 miles. The WLTP range is generally achievable with some careful driving on highways.

The Kona is rated for 300 miles WLTP and I'd expect a really solid 250 from it.

That was from the Cleantechnica article.
If they can get it out nationwide in the US at 250mile range and under 40k price it will sell like crazy.

My model 3 is amazing and if I thought there was another electric option with a total range of over 300miles that anything like a Tesla, we would have seriously considered it.

 

[seattlite2004]

That was from the Cleantechnica article.
If they can get it out nationwide in the US at 250mile range and under 40k price it will sell like crazy.

My model 3 is amazing and if I thought there was another electric option with a total range of over 300miles that anything like a Tesla, we would have seriously considered it.

and...the Koreans will have the full tax credit for a while...

 

[EVMeister]

The situation in the UK is fairly crap for CCS. But at least with a 250 mile range you have plenty of options. You would have to plan quite poorly to end up reliant on just one charging location.

Many Tesla owners do several short stops, like 15-20 minutes. I'd suggest doing the same with CCS, don't wait until you are dangerously low.

Oh I agree, if you're talking about having a car with 250 miles of range. Which I think is overly optimistic for the Kia including motorway driving and winter weather, which is when this occured. But I was talking about my experience in a 4 year old Renault ZOE, which under said conditions is lucky to get 50 miles of range. It wasn't a question of poor planning, it was a question of necessity. But regardless of range, the point still stands that it is much nicer to have 8 chargers at your location that only one brand can use vs. a couple that any brand can use.

 

[voip-ninja]

Go drive a Kia Stinger. They do make fun cars.

Ehem..

The Koreans build good cars. They, with very few exceptions, do not build fun cars. If someone wants an EV on a budget and is willing to forego some of the things Tesla does very well then have at it.

 

[chronopc]

If they can get it out nationwide in the US at 250mile range and under 40k price it will sell like crazy.

Doesn't this describe the Bolt? So far that hasn't been selling like crazy.

 

[ezevphl]

Doesn't this describe the Bolt? So far that hasn't been selling like crazy.

Sort of.. the Bolt with options adds to 42k and the max range is 238 with a subcompact. The Kia is a compact SUV which is pretty popular right now with theoretically more range and theoretically under 40k for the upgraded version.

I don't think the Kia will be in the same league as the Model 3, but the more EVs the better.

 

[chronopc]

Sort of.. the Bolt with options adds to 42k and the max range is 238 with a subcompact. The Kia is a compact SUV which is pretty popular right now with theoretically more range and theoretically under 40k for the upgraded version.

I don't think the Kia will be in the same league as the Model 3, but the more EVs the better.

Having EV options is always a good thing. I hope that will lead to other companies building charging networks.