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Model S 60 and 60D to be removed

Discussion in 'Model S' started by vigge50, Mar 17, 2017.

?

what reason do you think about Tesla discontinue its cheapest model S

  1. Make room for producing Model 3

    88.9%
  2. They would like to design something new about Model s

    11.1%
  1. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    For a while can mean many things in Elon speak. Just thinking out loud that given the chance to go to say 130 on the battery will be an easy way to keep the top line price on the MS/MX well north of 100k+.
     
  2. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I don't find the Model 3 an economy car in the sense of, say, a Toyota vs. Lexus.

    But I do find the Model 3 an economy car in the sense of Audi A3-A4 vs. Audi A7-A8.

    And that is a not an insignificant difference, both in size and prestige.

    By the way, I've driven and owned many a A3-A4 and A6-A8. I have no problem with either class as a daily driver. But it is a different class.
     
  3. Zoltrix77

    Zoltrix77 Member

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    I still believe there will be bigger packs than 100 when a change to 2170 cells begins. Musk is hardly going to come out and say that there will be a bigger pack around the corner, eg, don't buy now. lucid is going to be offering 130 packs, so I see no reason to stop at 100. I agree that their is a point of deminiahing returns however, 130 is getting near the limit of what makes sense. Remember that the S is going to more than likely move more upmarket once the 3 is realeased, it needs to if it wants to compete with the lucid air and whatever the Germans have coming up in the next few years.
     
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  4. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Member

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    Do you really think the Lucid Air will make it to production of more than a few hundred hand built units? The company that is backing them is selling off real estate, they don't have a factory, and they don't have fast charging infrastructure. The car looks amazing, but I can't see it happening. Tesla got a head start with a cheap factory, second hand presses and government loans. Without all those ingredients making the perfect storm, Tesla wouldn't have survived past the pipe dream stage.
     
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  5. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Discontinuing the S 60 and 60D isn't really simplifying production, since the only production differences between the 60 and 75 models is a software limitation on the battery capacity and changing the name plate. Producing cars with 60 battery pack capacity, isn't much different than other software configurable options like activating EAP or FSD.

    Simplifying production will only come if Tesla reduces the number of hardware variants - such as dropping the 75 rear wheel drive models or the 90 battery pack models - something Tesla could do in the coming months, and ramp down production of the rear wheel drive motors and 90 battery packs.

    This is primarily a small price increase for the entry level Model S - a price range that will likely be covered by the high end Model 3's.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    True, on the other hand:
    No failing solar money-sink to bail out
    No pretend plan to make their own battery cells which turns into a building to house their supplier
    No need to convince VC that the EV can succeed since tesla already showed a path to a return on the investment.


    Still seems like a long shot, but so did Tesla.
     
  7. caltechkid

    caltechkid Member

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    This has already been posted and discussed...
     
  8. Spidy

    Spidy Active Member

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  9. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009. EV miles: 244,000

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    The Electrek article said "Tesla says that they are making the change because most customers ultimately end up upgrading to 75 kWh" and several have complained that that explanation does not seem likely (and I agree that it does not). But the email I got from Tesla actually said something different: "most customers ended up buying an equivalent to the Model S 75 kWh".

    My reading of that is:
    1. Tesla offered the 60kWh option to lower the base price to attract new customers that couldn't or wouldn't spend the $ on a 75kWh Model S
    2. But they didn't get more Model S customers. They got the same customers, spending less on battery but more on options (hence "equivalent to 75kWh")

    I agree the text can be read more than one way; but that's how I took it, and I think it makes sense both for why they'd offer it, and why they'd take it away.

    Almost all manufacturers have large overlaps in the price ranges of their variously-sized cars, and I think Tesla will too. At least, once all the options are available on the 3 (apparently two of the biggies, P and D, won't be available at launch). I don't see why Tesla would remove S options just to make sure an S is always more expensive than a 3. Some people choose between differently-sized cars for reasons other than price.
     
  10. mrtian97

    mrtian97 Member

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    It's about product positioning. Tesla has done a great job in branding their car as exclusive car brand. I think the Model 3 will be the Mercedes C class which people will still associate MB as upper class brand but you pay lower price for the C class. I think from marketing perspective, which I completely agree with Tesla strategy in creating bigger gap between the 3 and the S. The S goes as much as $100k+, and I think Tesla wants to keep the S as their flagship product, similar to MB S class or BMW 7 series
     
  11. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009. EV miles: 244,000

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    Tesla just sent out an email with slightly different wording:

    "the majority of Tesla customers prefer to own the price equivalent of a Model S with 75 kWh battery or higher"

    which supports the theory that even though most 60 buyers don't upgrade to 75, they do spend at least as much as a 75 costs, so Tesla does not think they are getting new owners with the artificially low price of a 75 sold as a 60. So they have no reason to give away all of that battery for free.

    Yes, a C class costs less than an S class, at both the bottom and top ends. But there is still plenty of overlap, just like every other auto maker. Get an C class with all the options (including AMG and convertible), and it's well over $100k.
     
  12. ⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

    ⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️ In loving memory of Version 8

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    I spent more on my S60 than I would have on a base S75, but I wouldn't have bought a base S75. I think they knew what they were doing and it worked wonderfully. If they are losing money and it's not a good deal for Tesla to sell the 60 then they would have just stopped offering it like they did the X60 without any warning. One reason I jumped on ordering the S60 last July was I thought it was too good of a deal to last very long. The deal lasted longer than I expected. Hopefully I'm not kicking myself soon for not waiting for the Model 3.
     
  13. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    I'm generally okay with this since the Model 3 is coming out. But if it wasn't, I wouldn't be happy about it.

    The nice thing about the 60 is that you could get into the car for cheaper. Then down the road, when you are not in pain from the initial purchase anymore, you can throw a little more money at it and make it a 75. You end up spending more that way, sure, just as you do anytime you use a loan to buy a car.

    However, I think the Model 3 will take care of the more budget limited buyers when it rolls out, so I'm not too bothered by it.
     
  14. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    upload_2017-3-31_19-16-58.png
     
  15. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    This new wording implies that people's car preference is based on price. They seem to think that a guy who bought a base S60D would be just as happy with S75 (non-D) because it's price is about the same. I think marketing is hitting the sauce early this Friday.
     
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  16. caltechkid

    caltechkid Member

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    Yep...I recently met a few junior folks in that department and walked away saying wow, just wow.
     
  17. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Here is the next idea, why bother making P100D at all, just sell the customer a $140K "S75!" with gold plated exclamation that signifies you bought every single available option including the super exclusive "!". Win-win, right, customer wanted $140K car and got one, Tesla margins soar, someone in marketing gets a promotion! :p
     
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  18. Troy

    Troy Active Member

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    #118 Troy, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
    Hi. A few months ago, in this thread, I posted message #76 here full of predictions. It turns out those were not bad at all.

    Quote: Tesla won't bring back the 70. In fact, they will discontinue the 75 too because ...
    Tesla confirmed they will discontinue the Model S 75.

    Quote: 304 mi EPA rated range
    Tesla says 310 mi

    Quote: 5.0s 0-60mph
    Tesla says 5.1s

    Quote: $8K for the battery upgrade
    Tesla says $9K

    Quote: About the same cabin space as the Model S
    Better head room and same leg room confirmed. See details here.
     
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  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Are you going to publish the results of the participants in your polls ?

    I hope so -- I want to know how I did compared to the group willing to stick their necks on the block ;-)
    And it is worthwhile to know the utility of the group if we just go by most popular answer
     
  20. Troy

    Troy Active Member

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    • Like x 1

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