My Two Week Review - Heading towards 300,000 Miles

Hi All,

I really appriciated this forum for all the help and guidance as I was looking to make my purchase. I’ve been the proud owner of a 2023 Model Y LR for just over 2.5 weeks (Yep, weeks). I have logged about 2,500 miles. I drive over 30,000 miles per year, mostly for work. I live in cold Wisconsin so am interested in what the reality of winter driving will be but read enough feedback on this forum to move forward with my purchase.

I was planning to purchase a Toyota Camry XSE Hybrid until I switched to the Model Y thanks to the government tax incentive and Elon lowering the price. My numbers are subject to questioning but after building a spreadsheet including payments, fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc. I concluded that the Tesla was $28 per month cheaper than the Camry would have been…….over 10 years.

I know I could have driven the Camry 300,000 and for at least 10 years. Not sure I can do that with the Model Y, but gonna try.

So here are my thoughts, surprises, and disappointments.

Thoughts:
- I REALLY like this car. The tech is amazing. I don’t seem to have any of the build quality issues that some have had. (I have historically driven Corolla’s, so this is a step up for me.)
- The power is amazing. Just amazing.
- The super charger network (even in Wisconsin) is really good. They are everywhere I need them to be.

Surprises:
- I knew charging at home was going to save me money, but was surprised to find out that a full charge is less than $10. That’s great!
- Because of my long distance driving I’m simply going to have to charge at a super charge 3-4 times a week just to get home. I will have to charge to 100% at home, then use a super charger for 5-15 minutes. This is going to significantly cut into my estimated savings. Still cheaper than gas, but not nearly as much as I had hoped. For those that can charge almost exclusively at home, this is great.
- I got caught in a rainstorm and it dramatically reduced my range. I was surprised by the almost 5% loss in range just from 15-20 minutes of rain.


Disappointments:
- Super Charging is expensive. Based on 44 MPG (had I purchased the Camry Hybrid) my recent 850 mile trip to Ohio only saved me $10. I paid $60 in SC fees and would have paid $70 in gas.
- The lack of USS was known to me, but I remain disappointed. I bought the car anyway. I’m looking forward to updates that will hopefully improve some of the missing features I paid for.

Am I nervous about winter, yes. Am I glad I made the purchase, yes, so far. Do I like the car, yes!

I’m developing weird charging habits, probably uncessarily.

I arrive home and charge to 50%. Then set it to charge to the desired percentage the next morning when I need to go. Each day is different, so I’m not able to set it to one number and leave it.

I also feel I’m doing the two hardest things on the battery, but out of necessity for my lifestyle. I will charge it to 100% 2-4 times per week and leave the house almost immediately. I still will need to use a supercharger 2-4 times a week as well. This wasn’t what I hoped to do, but it is my reality.

Anyway, love the car. Hope things continue to go well.

oh, truck threw a rock and cracked my windshield on day 10 of ownership. Haha /sigh/

"0 Tesla Model Y 4" by Benespit is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
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[EatsShoots]

From pure $$ value perspective, there is no way Model Y beats Camry Hybrid if you are aiming at 300K life time mileage. On paper it is comparable between fuel cost and annual maintenance. But, when you need out of warranty repair for that tesla, it is going to cost you an arm and leg. Thousands are common. If you are unlucky to need battery, 5 digit bill. Just pray you get lucky and never need it.

I mean honestly I agree with this. We have a 2022 rav4 hybrid, which over the last year averages around 37 mpg including winter miles (40 mpg summer).

Picking up the model 3 on Saturday because it’s cheap and I love electric drivetrains but I’d have no qualms saying the Toyota will hit 300k with less spent on maintenance. More on fuel, but not that much more—and it’s cheaper in insurance than the Tesla.

 

[EatsShoots]

You're pretty much on target. But, there's One More Thing You Might Want To Think About: Solar Energy.

OK. So, the SO, two kids, and I moved into our current abode in 2004. New construction and there was a convenant Not To Do Anything Strange. That expired in 2008.

In 2008, we walked into a home show, were fast-talked by PSE&G and a half-dozen purveyors of solar panel electric systems. The two of us, being engineers, sat down at a table and started doing, "Catch, catch? Where's the catch?". And didn't find one.

Signed on with one batch of installers. $72k for the install. $15k instant rebate from the state; another $15k rebate from the Fed on taxes the following year. There's this thing called SRECs (we're still getting them, but they expire next year) where, for every MW-hr of energy generated by the panels, one gets this electronic certificate that's worth money. Back in 2008, it was $600 a pop; these days, it's $200, and we get roughly twelve of them a year. Rules in NJ say, "No more solar panels on the roof than the amount that will zero out your electric bill." The math was off a bit, though: The system was supposed to generate 10 MW-hr's a year, but it does roughly 12. Whee. Free money.

In any case, our electricity charges, other than a $4.95/month connection charge, is effectively zero. That makes... running around the landscape with our two Teslas pretty darn cheap. Except for trips, of course. But, still.

ICEs don't have this option. Unless one has access to an oil field below one's property. Those of us with BEVs can take advantage of that Big Fusion Power Plant in the Sky.

Changes since the day: It used to be around $8k/kW of panels on the roof, and we got 9 kW of panels up there. These days it's a lot cheaper. I've been asking the occasional solar installer at $RANDOM home shows, and that $72k system would be $24k nowadays.

Now comes the weirdness. Put in the solar panels. Don't pay for electricity. Get out a home improvement loan for the panels. That kind of loan uses the house as collateral and uses Mortgage Rates for the interest one pays (i.e., relatively cheap loans.). One will be cash-flow positive, right off the bat, because the loan amount per month will be less than the cost of electricity you're avoiding.

This became so obvious in NJ, years ago, that the State quit providing those instant rebates and the SREC program, which was meant to provide a 5-year break-even period, has been vastly reduced in its benefits for new users.

So: If you live in a place with a south-facing roof and no trees overhanging that side, really think hard about going solar.

I’m in New York. I got a 11.47 kW system installed last December. After state and federal credits it ran me $12.5-13k. Looking at a 7 year ROI with $.13/kWh electric costs (delivery plus the energy). Still, this is not much more than 50% of our consumption because we are greedy users of electricity (and we heat with gas!). So when I run calcs I still use the retail cost to compare prices. AC is a hideous consumer, electric dryer and stove…

 

[Tronguy]

I’m in New York. I got a 11.47 kW system installed last December. After state and federal credits it ran me $12.5-13k. Looking at a 7 year ROI with $.13/kWh electric costs (delivery plus the energy). Still, this is not much more than 50% of our consumption because we are greedy users of electricity (and we heat with gas!). So when I run calcs I still use the retail cost to compare prices. AC is a hideous consumer, electric dryer and stove…

The 8 kW system over here is roughly even with our electric usage and, as we slowly move the lights from incandescents to LED. Actually, to get SRECs, back in the day, it was a NJ requirement that the system not make more energy, at least on paper, than we used.

The one thing I've mumbled about from time to time was the idea of putting in a geothermal heat pump system. Those involve putting a number of pipes into the Earth and running a fluid up and down. The temperature of the Earth, below the frost line, is pretty much a constant, and a fluid like water is a heck of a more efficient way of moving heat around than, say, using air. During the summer such a system keeps the house cool by moving heat into the Earth; during winter, it works by taking heat out of the Earth and moving it into the house. Ta-da! No more Gas bill.

Hard to justify with a working HVAC system. But now, with the system getting about 20 years old and showing its age, I'm rethinking the idea. The big question is how much trouble it is to put those pipes in..

 

[Johnny Vector]

I’m in New York. I got a 11.47 kW system installed last December. After state and federal credits it ran me $12.5-13k. Looking at a 7 year ROI with $.13/kWh electric costs (delivery plus the energy). Still, this is not much more than 50% of our consumption because we are greedy users of electricity (and we heat with gas!). So when I run calcs I still use the retail cost to compare prices. AC is a hideous consumer, electric dryer and stove…

Wowsers. We (Maryland) have 12 kW (10 aimed South and 2 aimed East), and we come out just about even over the year, covering heating, cooling, cooking, domestic hot water, two EVs (Model Y and Bolt), hot tub, and a water feature in the front yard. (Everything is electric, including yard tools.) You should get an energy audit! Unless you live in a freaking mansion or you have a bitcoin mining farm set up, it sounds like you're leaking heat hand over fist. The Inflation Reduction Act will pay for most of an energy audit, and then a huge chunk of the rework to get the house weatherized. Sounds like it'll pay you back in a year.

To get back to the original point of this thread, I have a real hard time believing that a hybrid will go 300,000 miles without at least one major drivetrain repair. Or even a replacement battery, which is also thousands of dollars.

 

[EatsShoots]

Wowsers. We (Maryland) have 12 kW (10 aimed South and 2 aimed East), and we come out just about even over the year, covering heating, cooling, cooking, domestic hot water, two EVs (Model Y and Bolt), hot tub, and a water feature in the front yard. (Everything is electric, including yard tools.) You should get an energy audit! Unless you live in a freaking mansion or you have a bitcoin mining farm set up, it sounds like you're leaking heat hand over fist. The Inflation Reduction Act will pay for most of an energy audit, and then a huge chunk of the rework to get the house weatherized. Sounds like it'll pay you back in a year.

To get back to the original point of this thread, I have a real hard time believing that a hybrid will go 300,000 miles without at least one major drivetrain repair. Or even a replacement battery, which is also thousands of dollars.

I actually have no clue where it goes. In our last house we used shocking amounts of power. And this is a new build in 2020 and we do here as well, so it's just our habits. No grow farm or anything. Our hot water is also gas!

I think there are many priuses that have hit 300k+ without major issues. Things become a bit of a crap shoot, but if your goal is to just dump gobs and gobs of miles on a car it's still really hard to beat Toyota. It's also worth recognizing that very few people will actually put that many miles on a car themselves; they will replace it along the way for whatever reason.

 

[pokergooch]

I have a LR M3 2020 and live in the rockies. winter is a range killer. The sales guy told me it wouldn't be noticeable. horsecrap! on average, with all season tires, (worse with winter tires) I lost between 15 and 25 percent range, depending on how cold it is etc. 1. keep your car plugged in and precondition it each morning ( i only do this when its below 45 degrees at night, so most of the winter). this helped a lot. 2. use your seat heaters.... 3. use chill mode in the winter. not as fun but you'll not only save some range but extend the life of your tires. Also, I turn brake regen to low when there's snow on the ground, very little slipping and sliding. Also, rotate your tires as recommended. some say don't others swear by it. also, when I tinted the windows, they put a clear ceramic tint on the front windshield, I swear it's helped not getting cracks, etc. (basically a window tint without the tint)..

 

[SO16]

I have a LR M3 2020 and live in the rockies. winter is a range killer. The sales guy told me it wouldn't be noticeable. horsecrap! on average, with all season tires, (worse with winter tires) I lost between 15 and 25 percent range, depending on how cold it is etc. 1. keep your car plugged in and precondition it each morning ( i only do this when its below 45 degrees at night, so most of the winter). this helped a lot. 2. use your seat heaters.... 3. use chill mode in the winter. not as fun but you'll not only save some range but extend the life of your tires. Also, I turn brake regen to low when there's snow on the ground, very little slipping and sliding. Also, rotate your tires as recommended. some say don't others swear by it. also, when I tinted the windows, they put a clear ceramic tint on the front windshield, I swear it's helped not getting cracks, etc. (basically a window tint without the tint)..

Yeah cold definitely does affect range about 20% in winter. The sales person definitely should not have said that.

But it does help to precondition as you state.

 

[gad1976]

Yeah cold definitely does affect range about 20% in winter. The sales person definitely should not have said that.

But it does help to precondition as you state.

Does the cars computer know how to properly predict range in the cold or are you telling me that I would need to take the cars estimate and pad it by 20%? Thanks.

 

[SO16]

Does the cars computer know how to properly predict range in the cold or are you telling me that I would need to take the cars estimate and pad it by 20%? Thanks.

When starting out with full charge, I pad it. As it gets closer to empty, it gets more accurate. The trip planner is supposedly more accurate now with taking into account temp, wind, weather. I have a 2017 MS 90D without the heat pump. So I’m in a less winter efficient vehicle. Once you get used to it, you can be more relaxed about it.

 

[Iron]

Hi All,

I really appriciated this forum for all the help and guidance as I was looking to make my purchase. I’ve been the proud owner of a 2023 Model Y LR for just over 2.5 weeks (Yep, weeks). I have logged about 2,500 miles.

Elon says the batteries will last 300k to 400k miles. You have to be getting closer. What is your range compared to when it was new?

Probably the same... OP's car is new. Unless you're talking to someone else?

 

[father_of_6]

I actually have no clue where it goes. In our last house we used shocking amounts of power. And this is a new build in 2020 and we do here as well, so it's just our habits. No grow farm or anything. Our hot water is also gas!

I think there are many priuses that have hit 300k+ without major issues. Things become a bit of a crap shoot, but if your goal is to just dump gobs and gobs of miles on a car it's still really hard to beat Toyota. It's also worth recognizing that very few people will actually put that many miles on a car themselves; they will replace it along the way for whatever reason.

Do you have DVR boxes from a cable TV provider?

 

[Johnny Vector]

Do you have DVR boxes from a cable TV provider?

Another possibility is lots of shading is cutting back their production. For reference, I have essentially no shading (designed the house that way!) and get about 17 MWh per year.

 

[EatsShoots]

Do you have DVR boxes from a cable TV provider?

No DVR Btw my panels are full sun with microinverters and they are producing as expected (I check regularly and each panel is doing well). We just drink too much electricity

 

[FastEddieB]

I'm not a math major so don't mind my math being challenged.

I went on a two day trip this weekend Friday/Saturday and here was my experience.

I wasn't able to charge enough at home to do this entire trip as 461 miles is greater than the capacity of the MYLR.

I spent $25.53 in charging for the car.

$6.59 to charge at home from 11% to 100%. Then three super charger stops. $2.66, $10.50 & $6.16. I arrived at home with 12% battery left after traveling 461 miles.

My spreadsheet below shows that Tesla, even with SC's was cheaper than the Camry Hybrid I was planning to buy, and cheaper than my current 2009 Prius (and I included my 99 Suburban for laughs.)

So I am saving with my Tesla, but not a lot over the Camry, had I purchased it.

I am planning to take a two week vacation to the east coast later this month and we will be charing almost exclusively via SC. I expect this will total more than just gas for the Camry Hybrid would have cost, but maybe I'll be wrong.

If I could always charge at home I would save a lot of money. For me that just won't be a reality based on the distances I need to travel for work.

As I become more comfortable with the MYLR I may be able to push the limits a little more and charge at SC's less. This of course will require me to charge the battery to 100% a few days every week to save money on SC's.

(My numbers on the Camry Hybrid assumes I could actually get 44 MPG. I was looking at the XSE Hybrid that claimed 46 MPG, but since I didn't actually purchase it, I don't know what real world numbers are.)

View attachment 954527

I did a similar spreadsheet on a much longer trip, comparing my M3LR to my prior Honda Clarity PHEV (real world 42 mpg) and our Ford Flex. With very similar results.

 

[gad1976]

I did a similar spreadsheet on a much longer trip, comparing my M3LR to my prior Honda Clarity PHEV (real world 42 mpg) and our Ford Flex. With very similar results.

I'm about to take a two week vacation from Wisconsin to NY. I plan to keep track but am expecting to come back with almost exactly the same results you have. If I charge exclusively at super chargers then it'll be about the same as a car that gets mid 40 MPG's.

I've logged over 4,000 miles in the last 2.5 weeks and have a better feel for how things work. I'm able to go most places on a charge from home. I usually charge to 100% and get home with under 20%, but I can make it (in warm weather at least). So this will save.

Here is my lifetime cost for energy for the Model Y. I'm happy with this. The Camry is the car I didn't buy. The Prius and Suburban are my other two vehicles.

 

[FastEddieB]

Of course, the price of gas makes a huge difference. I can get regular at my local Weigel’s @ $2.89 with a loyalty card. The $3.19/gal I used on my spreadsheet was a rough guess based on the slightly higher prices I saw in Florida and Georgia. If gas goes up over time more than the price of Supercharging, we’ll see incremental gains in the amount saved by Supercharging. Factor in the savings of no oil changes and the like, I remain committed to EV’s regardless going forward.

 

[spokey]

Of course, the price of gas makes a huge difference. I can get regular at my local Weigel’s @ $2.89 with a loyalty card. The $3.19/gal I used on my spreadsheet was a rough guess based on the slightly higher prices I saw in Florida and Georgia. If gas goes up over time more than the price of Supercharging, we’ll see incremental gains in the amount saved by Supercharging. Factor in the savings of no oil changes and the like, I remain committed to EV’s regardless going forward.

I think I"m committed to EVs but I'm not sure it's all about cost for me. I guess environment has some impact but like most people I don't see my inidividual choices making a big diff (despite avoiding plastic, recycling every darn thing I can etc). But no / little maintenance (oil changes, etc) are a significant piece for me. I also now only have to take my wife's camry hybrid to inspection. And spending several seconds plugging in as I leave my wife daily vs the gas station is pretty worthwhile.

The one non-EV but Tesla thing is the spartan interior. Even though some stuff is harder because of the Tesla screen, the clean interior is a big deal for me. But others like the NIro or Kona (that I looked at as well in 2020) are too busy. Haven't looked at the more from scratch Ioniq but I can't go back to those airliner cockpits.

 

[dhrivnak]

I mean honestly I agree with this. We have a 2022 rav4 hybrid, which over the last year averages around 37 mpg including winter miles (40 mpg summer).

Picking up the model 3 on Saturday because it’s cheap and I love electric drivetrains but I’d have no qualms saying the Toyota will hit 300k with less spent on maintenance. More on fuel, but not that much more—and it’s cheaper in insurance than the Tesla.

I am not sure I agree as we own both a RAV4 Prime (2021, 46,000 mile) and a Model 3 (2018 110,000 miles). The model 3 has racked up $350 in out of warranty repair costs (control arm bushings and seat belt wiring harness) and I have already exceeded $175 on the RAV4 as that synthetic oil is expensive. By 110,000 miles I have no doubt the RAV4 would have cost me more. And as for the driving experience, the Model 3 wins hands down. The comparison is not even close.

 

[father_of_6]

And as for the driving experience, the Model 3 wins hands down. The comparison is not even close.

In my opinion, this is the summary of every conversation regarding vehicles. Driving a Tesla is not cheaper than driving an entry level ICE, but man is it fun.

Entry level EVs of the future will definitely be cheaper to own than entry level ICE, and Tesla paved the way for us to get to entry level EVs.

Tesla is still years ahead of the pack in terms of technology and even manufacturing techniques... but it'll be really nice when the other catch up. Chinese manufacturers will help drive prices down too.

 

[tampaboyt]

The main disappointment for me is the Real world range...for LR 330mile u get 270 in ideal conditions if it is winter probably around 210-220