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Nervous Nelly [FSD Complaint]

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
17,448
23,370
Riverside Co. CA
So someone inappropriately moved this to the FSD category here. HOWEVER, as the original poster here, I don't own FSD. This is NOT about FSD! Stop it.
I requested it be moved, a mod for the subforum it was in agreed with me. The subforum its now in is called "AI, AUTOPILOT and FSD". Your complaint is about autopilot. Specifically, about using autopilot while towing something on snowy roads.

It seems pretty obvious that this goes in the subforum on autopilot discussion.
 

Gray Man

∇x E = -∂B(t)/∂t
Oct 27, 2022
118
342
Augusta, GA
You aren't getting dumb cruise control. Rant, or no rant, it will never happen
While I don't agree with the OP's use case, I do believe this should be an option. It is silly and unfortunate that it wouldn't be. Every other car I've driven with assist features like variable cruise control has the ability to turn this off and act like "dumb" cruise control. That may be what the driver wants.

I'd still not use assist features in a "snowy canyon", but it's really dumb that "dumb" is not an option.
 
It would be very confusing for the driver if a "dumb" option was added. Right now there is TACC and AP. TACC is adaptive cruise control, and AP is TACC with autosteer (lane centering).

You currently press down on the stalk (or press the right wheel) once to enable TACC. You press down twice to engage AP. If you abort AP by moving the steering wheel (to take over), it drops down to TACC. Pressing the brake or pulling up on the stalk will disengage the system completely.

How would you enable "dumb" cruise control? And how would it be made clear in the interface that you're in dumb cruise control. I could see drivers being confused which system is enabled and expecting the car to steer when it won't, or expecting it to brake when it won't.
 
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Also coming around a corner in the Walker River Canyon as we approach a truck (18 wheeler dry box) coming the other way and the Y suddenly and unexpectedly hits the f***ing brakes hard. There was no reason for this. If anything it's a sure way to loose control on a slick road and go into the river, and die, not because of the truck, which did nothing wrong, but because of the Y which thinks it's pants are smarty pants, when in fact it's really a very dumb and dangerous car.

Or when an oncoming car safely turns left, crossing my lane far in-front of me, the Y screams for help like a baby, and brakes hard like a, .... wait for it ... a nervous Nelly.
Nobody has pointed out yet that Autopilot is not designed to be used on undivided highways where traffic is coming at you from the other way or turning across the lane ahead of you. An argument can be made that Tesla shouldn't allow you to enable it in those locations, but they do. And, as you've found, you're going to get more phantom braking incidents as a result.
 
Nobody has pointed out yet that Autopilot is not designed to be used on undivided highways where traffic is coming at you from the other way or turning across the lane ahead of you. An argument can be made that Tesla shouldn't allow you to enable it in those locations, but they do. And, as you've found, you're going to get more phantom braking incidents as a result.
I think he was using only TACC.
They really should dial back the phantom braking when not using Autosteer.
 
Because of it's utter stupidity I've decided to rename my Y: Nervous Nelly.

The next step will be to sell it.


In cruse control (aka: whatever they call it) it drives like a stupid child with bad eyesight. I can't even count the number of times it's braked for no reason. It is only a matter of time till it harms me or my girl, as someone plows into me, or it shakes loose the cargo in my trailer and causes the person behind harm, or we skid off the icy road because of it's stupid programming. Each time I've reported the bug, but it doesn't fix anything.

My gal is already scared and very annoyed by my new car. What kind of car is that for a guy to have, one that scares his gal? That's stupid.


I hasten to say that: We also have a Model 3 and a Nissan Leaf. They don't do this. But the Model Y has me so annoyed that I'm almost ready to sell it!

I love that it's electric. Electric was the ONLY reason I bought it. I didn't want the self driving junk, but I have no option. I'm considering putting black tape over the cameras at this point.

But the Y comes with this stupid, dumb computer that thinks it's much smarter than it is, and that hits the brakes for no reason at all. There is no excuse for it!!!!!!!

I'm so very angry at the Y at this point.


For example, multiple times on a straight two lane road, in full daylight, with no cars either ahead of me or behind me for a mile, I'm driving along and suddenly the car F***ing hits the brakes. WTF?

I call it Sudden Unexplained Braking (SUB), as in: a sub-par car.

Also coming around a corner in the Walker River Canyon as we approach a truck (18 wheeler dry box) coming the other way and the Y suddenly and unexpectedly hits the f***ing brakes hard. There was no reason for this. If anything it's a sure way to loose control on a slick road and go into the river, and die, not because of the truck, which did nothing wrong, but because of the Y which thinks it's pants are smarty pants, when in fact it's really a very dumb and dangerous car.

Or when an oncoming car safely turns left, crossing my lane far in-front of me, the Y screams for help like a baby, and brakes hard like a, .... wait for it ... a nervous Nelly.


I'm all for artificial intelligence, believe me, I helped make the Silicon Valley AI Forum into a non-profit like 20+ some years ago.

But my Y doesn't have AI. What can be accurately said is that it has AS: Artificial Stupidity.


Here is what's going on I think:

For many decades AI guys have been promising results. They think they are so smart. Top of their class. And they have to tell their boss that it's possible. So they lean into their argument and promise their boss the world, but in reality knowing they don't know if they can deliver it or not.

Over and over, over many decades, AI has promised, but not delivered all that was promised. It's a very old game to those of us have been involved with AI over the decades. So these guys told Elon they could deliver AI driven cars, but the reality is: it was a promise they should have known that would not hold up.

Anyone who has been around AI for a few decades has seen just how hard AI is.


We are not there, and the truth is: we aren't even close to having a safe, AI driven car.

Would I even consider, at this point, buying the Tesla FSD software? No way, no how. Are you kidding? Why would I buy more "advanced" software, when the simple stuff won't even work correctly?

Just please give me the option to select simple, dumb, cruse control.


And then have your boys continue to play with the AI stuff on their own cars. Someday in 50 years or so perhaps they will get something as good as a teenager which can really distinguish what is needed to safely drive a car smoothly, that will impress me rather than scare. I might buy one.


I've been meaning to rant on this for quite awhile, but have been busy with work. But now that the snow is here, this is more of a life or death issue.

So to all of you who will down play my comments, please come here and drive the Walker River canyon towing a trailer in a Y in snow conditions, and tell me that it doesn't scare the crap out of you too.
With intelligence, stupidity comes along
 

nvx1977

Unknown Member
Nov 25, 2017
3,070
7,224
NH, MA
I heard this a.m. that author Steven King owns his 2nd Tesla, but won't use the auto stuff either.

1667567441929.png
 
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2101Guy

Breaker of Ignore Buttons
Jan 6, 2020
4,711
7,238
USA
to the original poster, search here and on google for "phantom braking". Its a known problem with Tesla's "self" driving features/functionality. There is also at least one (actually, more) legal action against Tesla about this issue.

 
Last edited:
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2101Guy

Breaker of Ignore Buttons
Jan 6, 2020
4,711
7,238
USA
speaking of, was using AP (whatever the current version is) last night along I-95 east coast corridor. Even with various construction zones, cones, jersey walls, various repainted lines (lanes had shifted a few feet in certain places from their original location) that were new, but the old lines were still very slightly visible in some places, I must say it performed well. (credit where it is due). Few observations:
- Even with a counterweight in place, (and still paying full attention to the road) the steering nags remained, but sometimes 10-20 mins between nags. Appears that if the road is mainly totally straight/no turns, the steering weight isnt always detected. Either way, not a complaint, an observation.
- The only phantom braking (again,it was at night, so no shadows on the roadway) incident that occurred was actually more of an emergency braking situation. Was cruising along just fine on a straight portion of the highway in the left lane. No one in front, and the car behind me was maybe 10-15 car lengths back. As I approached an 18 wheeler in the lane directly to the right of me I began passing it normally (i was at about 70mph, the 18 wheeler appeared to be maybe 65mph) and about halfway past the 18 wheeler, the emergency braking kicked in, it attempted to steer the car gently but quickly to the left emergency lane while simultaneously giving off the AEB type sounds and telling me to immediately take control. Wasnt scary (took me maybe 1/2 second or less to take control) but considering that I had passed a number of semi's with zero issue, could not figure out what triggered that event seemingly out of nowhere.

Like a phantom.
 

Corndart

Active Member
Oct 11, 2021
1,073
1,364
Seattle
Autopilot = Rose Madder
FSD Beta = The Stand
Future FSD = The Gunslinger

Also, RIP so many snippy posts here.
I think people would be less snippy when posters looking for suggestions or to vent aren't so intractable wrt to their position. "I've always done it this way" just sounds a bit silly when you replay it in your head. No debate Autopilot/FSD need improvements, and it's good to hear anecdotes from others (from my perspective anyhow), but not when they're anchored in unsafe behavior or unrealistic expectations.

There is one aspect that does continue to come out in many of these AP threads, and that's a "dumb" cruise control that just locks on a speed and removes all the auto braking and slowdown functions. I would be willing to bet however that it simply opens another can of worms and torrent of complaints.
 
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Togg, you mentioned about towing. You may want to re-calibrate your cameras after you attached your tow as it may affect your cameras view angles. Also, I think most of the phantom breaking are due to the collision detection software, and not the cruise portion. A tow may sway relative to the back end of the car, hence the views of the two side back view camera.
 
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Supcom

Active Member
Oct 3, 2021
1,375
2,349
Texas
While I don't agree with the OP's use case, I do believe this should be an option. It is silly and unfortunate that it wouldn't be. Every other car I've driven with assist features like variable cruise control has the ability to turn this off and act like "dumb" cruise control. That may be what the driver wants.
If the driver wanted a dumb cruise control, then the driver should buy a car with dumb cruise control. Tesla does not offer it and it goes against the entire design philosophy of the car, which is to make it more automated, not less.
 
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