Newer Teslas also with Takata recalled airbags?

[anticitizen13.7]

FYI, people can read about Tesla's official recall statement here: Tesla to start replacing passenger airbags in all 2012 Model S sedans due to industry-wide Takata recall

tldr;

1. Worldwide Passenger Side only airbag recall starts with 2012 Model S, successive years through 2016 will be recalled before their airbag inflators degrade to the danger point per NHTSA study. Letters will be sent for affected VINs.
2. Model S no longer uses dangerous airbags as of late 2016 forward.
3. Neither Roadster nor Model X used airbags with defective inflators.

There's still several unknown components. I'm not defending Tesla here, but does anyone know what type of igniter they're using?

*Side note, we sold that car (after the fix) and will never buy another Honda/Acura specifically due to the way they handled the Takata recall with us.

It's not the igniter casing by itself that causes the problem. The problem is with the Ammonium Nitrate tablets inside an inflator that allows humid air to get inside. The Ammonium Nitrate tablets absorb the moisture from the humid air, and this subtly alters the geometry of the tablets. This in turn causes the tablets to burn too quickly when ignited, and the overpressure that results causes the inflator casing to explode into fragments.

Exactly. I don't understand why they watched this disaster pull slowly into dock for the last 36 months without a rush plan to stop producing more future recalls. Everyone in the industry knew ALL these were going to eventually need replacement. Spoiler alert: the desiccated variants will be added when they start exploding.

They have tested thousands of these in lab, after recovering them from vehicles. The failure rate was very high for the units in Honda and other makers because in addition to using the cheapest possible propellant, they made the cheapest possible container. GM wisely made the structure able to withstand the phase changed material.

There are a few issues at play. First, when Tesla was sourcing parts for Model S back in 2010 or 2011, the inflator problem was not well understood by the car manufacturers. Tesla may have signed a multi-year contract with Takata for specific inflator components. Second, the physical design of inflators is often specific to a car model or family of cars. With recalls under way by 2014 and airbag manufacturers under pressure to produce an unprecedented number of replacement parts for defective Takata airbags, in addition to meeting commitments for product to be installed in new cars, Tesla may not have been able to find a new supplier. Too much work industry-wide, and not enough airbag makers.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Full text of the email to Tesla customers was published here:

Tesla will replace 2012 Model S passenger airbags following Takata recall

The recalls will not affect any Tesla vehicles currently being produced, Model S vehicles that were produced after late 2016, or any Tesla Roadster or Model X vehicles. These vehicles do not have the type of airbag inflator that is subject to the recall.

 

[brucet999]

Tesla was included in a Takata recall notice a long time ago. I'm not sure if this is *really* a new recall notice, or someone digging up an old recall notice. In any case, I just checked both my VINs on the link posted above by @Yinn (thanks!) and neither is included.

Not old. I got an email today from Tesla saying in part:

"As part of a recent expansion of the industry-wide recall of Takata airbag inflators, the passenger airbags in certain 2012 Model S vehicles are now affected by the recall, and Tesla will be replacing them. Although the Takata recall currently only applies to 2012 Model S vehicles located in regions of the United States designated as high humidity, Tesla will replace the passenger airbags in all 2012 Model S vehicles globally."

"Although the current recall only applies to 2012 Model S vehicles, the passenger airbags of all Model S vehicles produced through late 2016 are expected to eventually be recalled. If you own a Model S produced between 2013 and 2016, your airbags are safe, and you do not need to take any action until you receive further notice from Tesla."

 

[ggr]

Yes, I got the same notice today re our 2012 Sig S. That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't on any list at the time I searched, months ago.

 

[Swift]

Anybody know what they mean by "late 2016"? I have a November 16 build but still got the heads up email from tesla today.

 

[DDotJ]

Anybody know what they mean by "late 2016"? I have a November 16 build but still got the heads up email from tesla today.

I wouldn't worry about the email. I have a Model X on order that hasn't even been built yet on a separate Tesla account and it got the email about the airbag recall as well. Looks like the email went out to all Tesla owners (and soon to be owners as well)

 

[MIT_S60]

Anybody know what they mean by "late 2016"? I have a November 16 build but still got the heads up email from tesla today.

It would be great to find out when the cutoff date for the 2016 builds is. Hopefully someone can find out and post here.

 

[mmccord]

It would be great to find out when the cutoff date for the 2016 builds is. Hopefully someone can find out and post here.

'third quarter 2015' meant token deliveries September 30th, then nothing for several months, so i can only assume 'late 2016' means around March of 2017.

 

[Vitold]

Correct, good article here about it:
Takata Airbag Recall - Everything You Need to Know

Essentially, there's a part in the airbag that ends up as shrapnel anytime an air bag deploys. As the chemicals age, it absorbs moisture, which changes the chemical mixture, increases the force of deployment and makes the shrapnel more deadly.

In some cars, the takata airbags are also combined with an issue with unintended deployment.

That is incorrect. Takata airbags have been deemed dangerous only after a years of exposure to humidity and heat.

Here's a quote from the article:

"environmental moisture, high temperatures, and age (are) associated with the defect that can improperly inflate the airbags and even send shrapnel into the occupant. To date, there have been 11 deaths"

All Teslas produced after late 2016 do not use such inflator.

 

[X Fan]

So... how much is one life worth?

Fixed it for you: "So... how much is your life worth".

 

[Vitold]

If you find title of the thread incendiary please vote here.

 

[sandpiper]

I'd say $20 trillion or more.

If the NHTSA took my advice when offered, and required full face SNELL helmets, HANS devices, SFI-15 firesuits, and 5-pt harnesses, at least 50,000 lives would have saved for $2500 per car occupant. Probably 250,000 lives.

We may get there yet.

 

[sandpiper]

So... how much is one life worth?

Good question. The problem, of course, is that we're not living in a world of unlimited resources. And so society makes these decisions all of the time.

Highways would be safer if we doubled the standard lane width. But we don't. Why? Because we're trading $ for lives. There are countless other examples in every aspect of industry. We could eliminate ALL deaths in home fires, simply by eliminating the use of flammable materials in home construction. We don't. Why? We could require that all old buildings that are below current seismic standards be demolished and replaced. But we don't. Why? And don't even get started on health care. Whether we like it or not it's all about the $ value of a life, even if we sheepishly choose not to acknowledge it.

So, you can't consider $20M per life in isolation. The question is more about how many lives that $20M could have saved in other ways.

 

[croman]

I understand that even a defective Takata airbag is better than none at all for a certain period of time under certain conditions. That being said, I am confused why Tesla isn't clear which VIN ranges are affected or at least stating clearly whether they are still sourcing airbags from Takata or whether the airbags they are using now are OK. Its just annoying how little Tesla communicates and how poorly their communications are worded. "late 2016" isn't an actual time period.

 

[Yinn]

It would be great to find out when the cutoff date for the 2016 builds is. Hopefully someone can find out and post here.

I contacted Tesla and was told that my December 2016 build will need to be replaced eventually. So I would assume anyone before me would be in the same boat, and pretty safe to say you would need at least a 2017 build to be safe.

 

[Nicola_Won]

I think it's fair to assume given the stats that the likelihood of danger is so low, you're more likely to be hit by an asteroid. But since the industry is having the recall forced on them, they have to take the action required. So I think you can assume they'll swap the airbag on your next service. No need to swamp their phone lines and clog their service centres because you're worried about being hit by an asteroid.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I understand that even a defective Takata airbag is better than none at all for a certain period of time under certain conditions.

I think it's fair to assume given the stats that the likelihood of danger is so low, you're more likely to be hit by an asteroid. But since the industry is having the recall forced on them, they have to take the action required. So I think you can assume they'll swap the airbag on your next service. No need to swamp their phone lines and clog their service centres because you're worried about being hit by an asteroid.

Honda and other major car manufacturers hired Orbital ATK (yes, the SpaceX rival) to conduct a study on Ammonium Nitrate airbag inflators. The study indicated that such inflators become dangerous due to a combination of time, exposure to High Absolute Humidity, and exposure to temperature fluctuations.

The data indicated that under worst-case scenarios, Takata airbag inflators using Ammonium Nitrate tablets become dangerous after 6-7 years exposure to high humidity and temperature swings. The oldest Tesla Model S is a bit more than 4.5 years old at this point, and its Passenger-side airbag likely poses no threat at this time.

 

[brianman]

Good question. The problem, of course, is that we're not living in a world of unlimited resources. And so society makes these decisions all of the time.

Highways would be safer if we doubled the standard lane width. But we don't. Why? Because we're trading $ for lives. There are countless other examples in every aspect of industry. We could eliminate ALL deaths in home fires, simply by eliminating the use of flammable materials in home construction. We don't. Why? We could require that all old buildings that are below current seismic standards be demolished and replaced. But we don't. Why? And don't even get started on health care. Whether we like it or not it's all about the $ value of a life, even if we sheepishly choose not to acknowledge it.

So, you can't consider $20M per life in isolation. The question is more about how many lives that $20M could have saved in other ways.

That's a bit of a dark perspective. "If money was no object..." is where you're headed, and that thinking leads to "nothing is affordable."

Simplifying it to "how much $ is a life worth" is an overly simplistic way of looking at the challenges, with likely analysis paralysis as the only outcome rather than legitimate improvements in the condition of man.

The quest for utopia can easily lead to inevitably failed (and expensive) attempts at building Escher-inspired impossibilities.

 

[lkuntz]

It would be great to find out when the cutoff date for the 2016 builds is. Hopefully someone can find out and post here.

I posted this on another thread on the same topic. Our S90D went into production on 12/19/16 and we took delivery on 12/29/16. We had to have the driver's knee airbag removed in order to install hand controls and it is a Takata. I assume the other airbags in the car are as well.

 

[brucet999]

It would be great to find out when the cutoff date for the 2016 builds is. Hopefully someone can find out and post here.

As someone famously said in another context, "What difference does it make at this point, anyway?" The problem with Takata airbags occurs only after several years of exposure to high temperatures and humidity, neither of which pertain to Orange County, CA. Tesla made clear that they are recalling all 2012 cars even though the vast majority never will see the conditions that have led to Takata failures.

Relax and enjoy your beautiful new car.