Seriously Considering Going Back to ICE

[Roy W.]

Who can honestly say they are using autopilot on A roads or Motorways and are finding the experience less taxing than just taking the wheel?

I use basic AP all the time on dual carriageways and motorways.

Apart from very occasional phantom braking, I find it faultless in these circumstances.

I’ve never used it on A roads.

 

[gangzoom]

I have found that I now dislike motorway driving, and try to avoid it if I can.

I think this kind of mentality is exactly what @CaptainTom cannot understand, and a vast proportion of main stream motorist will feel the same way.

Every single Tesla is essentially a luxury product, an indulgence, no one really needs an EV and especially a Tesla.

In every other part of life when you pay for a more luxurious product you expect your life to be easier, service quicker etc. However with EVs often its actually the opposite, for long trip you have to drive slower, worry about charging etc.

If someone is willing to make at least some compromise with either speed or stopping to charge than actually EVs with access to the current Tesla SuperCharger sites isn't really an issue. I've just planned our summer holiday road trip to Scotland, 6 in the car, traveling to quite a few places over the space of roughly 7 nights, will be over 1000 miles when all done. With access to the SuperChargers its actually very easy, only requiring the use of 5 Tesla Superchargers all at M-way services which we would be stopping at any ways for break even in a combustion car especially with a 3 year old + 5 adults in the car!!

However there is no doubt some people will still find the concept of making any additional planning (like I've done) for along trip in an EV unacceptable, and they are have every right to feel that way, but even with a bit of planning things actually aren't that hard or even slower in an EV.

@CaptainTom Before you're next long trip look at A Better Routeplanner, it will show you realistic range, when/where you need to charge, and give you much more confidence to take the car down to sub 10% charge (20 miles of range). If you just head off with no planning you're experience of taking an EV on a long trip will not be any better than what you have experienced so far.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Who can honestly say they are using autopilot on A roads or Motorways and are finding the experience less taxing than just taking the wheel?

TBH, long before I ever decided to buy a Tesla, autopilot was way down on my list of useful things to have. I've used it a handful of times, but really only to see how it behaves. It has convinced me that FSD is a long, long way off, at least here in the UK.

However, some of the constituent parts of autopilot I find really useful, and they work with autopilot switched off. The improved situational awareness provided by the display is pretty useful, especially in heavy traffic on multi-lane roads. Likewise, the ability of the system to detect hazards I may not have seen and flag them up is useful.

I think the biggest single issue is that EVs are just very different to ICE cars, and it's going to take a fair time for people to both understand those differences and work out whether or not they pose a significant limitation for what they need to use the car for.

 

[LukeT]

What about other concerns I raised? Who can honestly say they are using autopilot on A roads or Motorways and are finding the experience less taxing than just taking the wheel?

I mean at 70mph. Autopilot is fantastic in stop start traffic.

My two penneth... I think while it has a long way to go I think in its current form it's much better to have a car with it than without it for long motorway journeys, at proper motorway speeds. In low traffic I think it is genuinely useful, ditto in a jam. In moderate traffic, where one needs to be reasonably positive with things like lane chances, I think to be practical one has to take over for anything other than keeping the lane. Lane change in any conditions has a way to go but I use it as much as anything to minimise the bing bongs. It's nowhere near full self driving though. And on/off ramp is pretty pointless in its current form as well as being just not good enough. Poor weather performance (dropping various functionality at the merest hunt of rain) is crap.

Is it less taxing? I think it can be, a bit, but you can't do nothing. You have slightly different, but still constant, responsibilities.

When I'm in the car on my own I am relaxed about its occasional odd behaviour, which I don't think is unsafe as such and I hover my foot over the accelerator anyway. With passengers the oddnesses of behaviour do affect their comfort and their perception of safety, so I'm quite choosy as to when I use it.

Overall I do like it but I think it's oversold. So depends on your expectations.

 

[TestPilot]

I have FSD, and pretty much only use it when I'm on my own. My wife is already skeptical about the car, one instance of phantom braking would be too many.

 

[NewbieT]

I use auto-pilot a lot. Makes driving so much more relaxing. 85% of my commute A road dual carriageways & autopilot on. Genuinely one of the things I like the most about the car. Yes, the odd phantom braking but every adaptive cruise control has its moments.

I wonder if HW2 is using the same neural nets as HW3 but maybe some hardware differences means it just doesn’t work as well?

 

[Roy W.]

The basic Tesla AP is much better than the systems on both the Kona electric and the newest Nissan Leaf.

Although both of those cars offer similar functions to AP - TACC and Lane Follow Assist - neither of them feel as trustworthy as AP.

There’s one island in Derby I drive at least every other day. The island is at the bottom of a hill on dual carriageway, but just before the island the road bends. The Kona could never manage to come to a stop behind traffic at the island, needing intervention every time as it just wasn’t slowing down. I assume the bend in the road was confusing it. The basic Tesla AP works every time at the same junction.

 

[Adopado]

What about other concerns I raised? Who can honestly say they are using autopilot on A roads or Motorways and are finding the experience less taxing than just taking the wheel?

I mean at 70mph. Autopilot is fantastic in stop start traffic.

I can honestly say ... I'd rather drive the car! I enjoy driving. Several people have posted about how well AP works for them but I'm not in that number. I try it out occasionally as an entertainment or just to see how the tech is coming along but until it can drive as well as (or better than) me then I'll not be a regular user. I am still less relaxed with autopilot than just driving manually.

 

[LukeT]

I have FSD, and pretty much only use it when I'm on my own. My wife is already skeptical about the car, one instance of phantom braking would be too many.

I use auto-pilot a lot. Makes driving so much more relaxing. 85% of my commute A road dual carriageways & autopilot on. Genuinely one of the things I like the most about the car. Yes, the odd phantom braking but every adaptive cruise control has its moments.

I wonder if HW2 is using the same neural nets as HW3 but maybe some hardware differences means it just doesn’t work as well?

I pretty much agree with both of these. I'm on my own most of the time though...

My other half thinks the car is going to kill us all. But on my own I use AP pretty constantly on motorways and DCs.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

My other half thinks the car is going to kill us all. .

Mine feels much the same. She likes the comfortable seats, loves the display/control panel, especially the ease of setting the heating/cooling, but doesn't like me selecting AP, and absolutely hates the acceleration.

 

[MaDProFF]

I think the same way as you Jeremy Harris, I paid for it but never really intended to use it in the short term, and tbh I do not think it will ever be that good in its current format on UK roads.

I personally do not find it an issue driving on the motorway, and drive too fast really for AP in any form, but I found it more taxing using it the few times I have tried it for a short while than not using it.

 

[Jason71]

I think part of me hoped that when I posted those numbers, people's response would be 'there must be something wrong with your car'. But actually, the concensus seems to be that people would roughly expect that sort of range and have just learned to put up with it or never really considered that it's vastly different to what they were sold. I'll make a decision in the next few weeks about what I do with the car. I mostly want to keep it and make it work but I've got some big trips coming up soon, so I'll see how they go with a bit less stubbornness on my part.

What about other concerns I raised? Who can honestly say they are using autopilot on A roads or Motorways and are finding the experience less taxing than just taking the wheel?

I mean at 70mph. Autopilot is fantastic in stop start traffic.

I find AP great at 70mph......so long as there is no one else using the motorway. Other cars rather spoil the experience i find.

 

[Spacep0d]

I'm skipping AP altogether. I love driving, and driving without a clutch is already so easy, and one-pedal driving is even better. I'm quite picky about lane-positioning and placement, following distance, protecting space for people who like to cut in front of everyone, dealing with tailgaters, etc. Part of this is my 20 years as a motorcyclist (sportbikes) informing my survival instinct, but there's no way I'd be able to relax with AP if I had to keep a hand on the wheel anyway and I consider this the worst of both worlds. If AP or FSD were perfected and proven, that would be a different story.

There's also the nature of roads and conditions which undermine AP, and the predictive human quality we lose with AP such as causal chains that AP might not pick up (but an experienced rider/driver sees coming).

What I would miss is auto parallel parking and summon. I think these features should be available separately for those who want to auto parallel park or summon but like driving.

 

[Adopado]

... I'm quite picky about lane-positioning and placement, following distance, protecting space for people who like to cut in front of everyone, dealing with tailgaters, etc. Part of this is my 20 years as a motorcyclist (sportbikes) informing my survival instinct ...

Definitely a big "me too" on that one. I hadn't linked it to my bike experience before but I agree. You are looking so far ahead and making decisions about speed and positioning that are way in advance of what AP can do. This why when you drive directly you can have a smooth and seamless flow, as against the on/off last minute decision making that tends to characterise AP.

 

[ringi]

One issue is the two moderatly trips in a long range EV without destination charging between is about worce case for a long range EV. If the two trips was one continuous trip, few people would mind having two coffee/wc stops to charge, yet as the trip is to/from a destination that provides free coffee/wc without providing charging it becomes a problem.