Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Zextraterrestrial]

Excellent summary. Suggestions:
- Would you re-post the same with revision#, this being rev.1. The next one with new feedback being rev.2, and on.
- Would you also highlight the fact that specific % of 85 kWh type batteries are impacted (connotation being there must be something wrong with these batteries and not all 85 kWh variants)

Thanks again.

I thought some 60's also?

 

[MP3Mike]

The estimated range based on whatever the Wh/mile is even indicated in the used car for sale's dash display - so it is not difficult to report it. It seems the decent thing is to at least mark it down as a factor in the cars status - just like mileage etc. It is slightly misleading for Tesla to advertise a CPO's range as that when it was new when clearly it is not the case when they are selling it.

And with it being so easily visible it is easy for a buyer to do their due diligence and look at the number as part of their inspection before they accept the car.

And they are not selling CPO cars, they are selling used cars. (The CPO program ended long ago.)

 

[Droschke]

I thought some 60's also?

Correct. The 60's have also been impacted. But, aren't the 60's in the same family as 85's? My monroney shows $10,000 more for the 85 kWh battery. In Feb. 2015, there was 85's and 60's (the 70's were introduced in April). So, the $10,000 was for the upgrade over 60 kWh I assumed. But I do see your point as my wording was "... something wrong with these batteries and not all 85 kWh variants".

 

[sorka]

I am suggesting that the old algorithm falsely concluded a too high range. (and we have all been pleased that the calculated range showed that we all had less degradation than anybody expected:for the last 3 years-))

If Tesla suddenly realized that their 'Remaining Capacity Calculator' is wrong (or worse cause a risk), then of course, they need to reduce the estimate to the 'real' value. This means you will not run out of juice unexpectedly and you will not increase risks.

This has nothing to do with range calculations. The reduction in range is real because the reduction in charge state is real. If you could charge to 4.2 volts before, you were charging to 100% of existing capacity. If you could only charge to 4.1 volts after the update, then you're only charging to 90% of existing capacity even if the display says 100%.

 

[sorka]

Range-gate?
Battery-gate?

Cap-gate?

Of course my favorite of all time but not directly related.....691-gate

 

[sorka]

So far I've managed to say on v8. v9 has not been staged in the 4K miles I've driven with my car hooked up to a null wifi hotspot when parked. Some of that mileage has been 4 hour long drives. So it seems Tesla will not download software while you are driving.

FYI, I offer my car up as an example of a good condition battery pre-update 16.2 update in case someone's legal team wants to examine it. I might even be willing to update the car to v9 if the cause is good enough.

 

[DJRas]

And with it being so easily visible it is easy for a buyer to do their due diligence and look at the number as part of their inspection before they accept the car.

And they are not selling CPO cars, they are selling used cars. (The CPO program ended long ago.)

I wouldn't say the program ended long ago.
A coworker bought a 2015 P85 last October and there are mentions on this forum through April.
Now, they do call them Used Cars.

As you will see if you look through the legal arguments is that Tesla never presented anyone with a inspection report from these CPO cars though Tesla advertised 92 (or 120 or 240) point inspections.

But we digress...

 

[Leeboy22001]

I've attached screen shots from ScanMyTesla, from my 2014 S60 yesterday. Battery is at 98.5%.

 

[VT_EE]

While supercharging, or even in the car with it off, I hit the Tesla T, select Arcade.
Immediately, power steering starts working, and I was able to take it out of park. Display says parking brake is not engaged. If passive entry is off, it will switch back to park with the parking brake not applied. Power steering, etc stays on until you exit the arcade
Needless to say, not a behavior that would be safe, especially if a child goes to play the games.

There is a message that pops up prior to playing that states all the above will happen and you shouldn't let children play unsupervised.

 

[darxsys]

There is a message that pops up prior to playing that states all the above will happen and you shouldn't let children play unsupervised.

Uhm, so somehow a single message that most people won't even read excuses Tesla from introducing unsafe features into a car?

 

[VT_EE]

Uhm, so somehow a single message that most people won't even read excuses Tesla from introducing unsafe features into a car?

Listen, It's a car, not a video game console. The message even says the wheels of the vehicle will move while playing so make sure there is nothing near them beforehand (applies to the dune buggy game). I read it, and it's not like the simple message is buried in fine print. If someone has a problem with this, then don't play the games or let children play the games from the drivers seat.

 

[lightningltd]

There is a message that pops up prior to playing that states all the above will happen and you shouldn't let children play unsupervised.

I do not remember ever seeing this message pop up, nor did my wife.
Where is this message at?

 

[boywonder]

Getting back on topic...

As others have stated the real issue here is the reduction in both supercharger speeds and max cell voltage that Tesla instigated without any warning.

Imagine an ICE manufacturer slipping into your parked car’s garage at night and inserting polystyrene blocks that removed 10% of the fuel tanks capacity - this is effectively what Tesla has done.

The affected cars are unable to fill the battery as full as they could before the recent updates. Hence the impact on range.

For Tesla to try and spin this as a range recalculation based on projected battery degradation is pure BS.

However I hope (and expect) that Tesla will reinstate both the former supercharger speeds and max cell charge voltage soon once they’ve worked out a better solution to fix the fire problem.

I think Tesla could have got affected owners onside if they’d communicated their intentions and reasons beforehand.

I’m pretty pissed off with Tesla right now but I love my Tesla and without them many of us would still be driving around in ICE vehicle.

I’m willing to cut Tesla some slack to resolve this but that will be either to reinstate my former range or to provide a new battery pack under warranty due to the obvious safety reason if they cannot restore range through a software update.

 

[u1e85d5]

(...)
However I hope (and expect) that Tesla will reinstate both the former supercharger speeds and max cell charge voltage soon once they’ve worked out a better solution to fix the fire problem.
(...)

by the way: lower cell voltage maximum == lower supercharging speed in CV cycle

 

[nowtleft]

My P85 lost 22 miles overnight in May/June - I have asked for the "faulty" pack to be replaced by the service centre which I feel everyone else should do. Who is to say that this will not happen every year or 2 in the future? If the pack needs this doing to it then it is faulty and covered under warranty - simple as that!

 

[egn1]

Imagine an ICE manufacturer slipping into your parked car’s garage at night and inserting polystyrene blocks that removed 10% of the fuel

This seems to be a good analogy. You can even extent this to the following:

Imagine that the fuel tank of an ICE is punctured at the top end, and when the tank is filled to 100 % some fuel is sipping out, and causes fire danger. Instead of fixing the fuel tank or replacing it all together, the manufacturer is preventing the user to fill it to 100 % and also reduces the fuel flow to avoid that fuel is lost thru the punctures.

 

[u1e85d5]

Or imagine we learn in a new study that when filling your gas tank to 100% in 42°C weather, a compound is created by the fuel pressure (bare with me) that can lead to fire. So the manufacturer sends an over-the-air update limiting you to fill the tank by 0.5% per mol of detected compound.
But suddenly a few people can only fuel to 90% and are complaining. So they investigate and find that when fueling with 7.3%-7.4% ethanol a compound is detected that has the same signature on the sensor but is harmless. Now they have to figure out a way to distinguish between those and release another update that gives back the fueling capacity to affected owners while keeping everyone save.

I know, not a good analogy, but I think you're oversimplifying in yours.

 

[patatm3]

There is also a Price-Gate....I lost 4k€ from a day to another....Sorry for the off topic.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

by the way: lower cell voltage maximum == lower supercharging speed in CV cycle

Ironically, whilst I am suffering from #batterygate (reduced capacity) I am not suffering from #chargegate (reduced charging speed), but I have noticed a very slight (1-2kW) improvement in Supercharging flow rate, although that might be Tesla’s new feature to speed up charging speeds when you select a Supercharger as the destination. I did wonder if that (higher speed=higher temp) wasn’t doing exactly what #batterygate and #chargegate were both trying to overcome. It’s almost as if their left hand and right hand don’t know what each is doing. Hmm

 

[Ferrycraigs]

There is also a Price-Gate....I lost 4k€ from a day to another....Sorry for the off topic.

Yep, I lost £10K-£15K over the great price drop weekend as the value of my car plummeted, because Tesla seemed much more interested in more sales rather than caring about any effect on their customers. And they didn’t seem to care much when they changed my car from a S70 into a S58 (without any of the S60 benefits like being able to charge to 100%, quickly). But they want me to be patient whilst they 'work' on a solution that 'may' see an 'improvement', in coming months. And we all know how accurate Tesla's promises are for something coming in the future. In UK we have a term, 'Tesla Soon' which means slightly less than infinity, more akin to eventually.