Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[MP3Mike]

What do you mean?
I should let it sit, plugged, at 100% until all the cells have the same voltage?

Your pack is only as strong as the weakest brick of cells. But you could drain it some and then charge it to 100% again. And the slower you charge it the less difference you should have between the lowest and highest brick voltage. (So you could set it to charge at 6A if you wanted.)

But it really isn't going to make much of a difference.

Also, while it says the lowest cell is 4.178, the details don't actually show any cell that low.

 

[sorka]

Wow. My pack capacity ranges exactly from 74.2 to 74.5 as well. But your rated range and pack capacity don't add up. Rated range includes the buffer and at 295 wh / mile if you had 74.2, your displayed rated range at 100% would currently be 251 miles (405 km).

Are you sure you're not quoting 90%?

 

[Leeboy22001]

So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

I WANT A NEW BATTERY!!!
Do you hear me Tesla?

And i want one that doesn't have the stupid sloooow charge rate at Superchargers like this one has since about June 2019.

Rant over.

Going to post this on the Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software thread too.

When you get down to 4.088V @100%, like many of us who have been affected, then you can start getting angry

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Wow. My pack capacity ranges exactly from 74.2 to 74.5 as well. But your rated range and pack capacity don't add up. Rated range includes the buffer and at 295 wh / mile if you had 74.2, your displayed rated range at 100% would currently be 251 miles (405 km).

Are you sure you're not quoting 90%?

Absolutely sure.
My 90% is between 333km and 337km.

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Ok, how can i edit the thread title and the first post?
I think "Is my battery capped?" would be more appropriate, but i would also like to edit my first post.

Mods?

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

When you get down to 4.088V @100%, like many of use who have been affected, then you can start getting angry

I hear you

 

[sorka]

Absolutely sure.
My 90% is between 333km and 337km.

337 km is equivalent to 67.85 kwh.

 

[jerry33]

Ok, how can i edit the thread title and the first post?
I think "Is my battery capped?" would be more appropriate, but i would also like to edit my first post.

Mods?

Editing a post is turned off after a short time because people used change their postings in the course of a discussion to say that they never said what they said. Sometimes you can get an Administrator to change the subject (I think I recall seeing that the Moderators couldn't do it).

 

[BPeter]

SMH. Because Tesla won't speak about this issue at all now we have people thinking they're capped when they're not and just have real degradation. Just hurts the brand even more.

 

[BPeter]

Model 3 pack replacements are currently $15000 including the core credit for your old pack. A couple of 3 owners have hit road debris and damaged a plastic coolant fitting on the pack that requires the whole pack to be replaced. Speaking of poor designs, that is another bucket of worms there.

Are you thinking of the one guy in Canada who broke some kind of coolant connection? I believe his replacement cost was $16K CAD including shipping to Canada and installation. That's 12K USD and that was actually without a core charge. That person got to keep their old battery pack.

 

[MP3Mike]

Are you thinking of the one guy in Canada who broke some kind of coolant connection? I believe his replacement cost was $16K CAD including shipping to Canada and installation. That's 12K USD and that was actually without a core charge. That person got to keep their old battery pack.

Nope multiple people in the US have showed invoices where the pack was $15k plus 4.5 hours of labor.

 

[BPeter]

Nope multiple people in the US have showed invoices where the pack was $15k plus 4.5 hours of labor.

Seems like you're talking about this?

Battery damaged

OP said Tesla never called it a core charge. They probably just BS'd their way into keeping the old pack. Something they didn't try/were unsuccessful at doing to the guy in Canada. Someone found a listing online for a battery with the same damage he had, listed in the same area. With OP having insurance pay for it he probably didn't care too much, especially if the insurance would have gotten to keep the old pack.

 

[cpa]

I still say the only way this is going to be truly solved is if a legal ruling is made as to the magnitude of what has been done. How much performance (both operation and range) can a manufacturer take in order to address a safety issue? Owners have an expectation that their vehicle should maintain a reasonable level of performance during the warranty period. I don't think it would have been an issue if we were talking about 2 miles and 2 kW of charging speed. But can they take 10 miles and 10 kW? 20? 50? At some point, you'll get to a threshold where some governing body is going to have to rule that if you exceed a certain percentage when removing range, charging speed, or performance, you are required to provide a proper fix instead. And the problem with this is that getting any governing body to make even a small change typically takes 18 months. By the time any ruling is made, everyone affected may be out of warranty anyway.

Mike

I am not certain whether we need additional legislation or a government agency to define what a permitted reduction in range/charging/performance etc. We already have existing laws that speak to warranties, false advertising, fitness of use, and other related areas that are supposed to protect the consumer and require manufacturers to be more diligent in selling their products and making claims as to their functionality.

This area will be the sole jurisdiction of the courts. These will be primarily civil matters, and it is within the realm of possibility that the loser at the trial level will appeal the verdict. It won't be until there is some case law on the books that the manufacturers and consumers will have an idea what sort of losses are reasonable and to be expected without becoming warranty claims.

While I am not a lawyer, I would think, and a good lawyer could argue, that the filing of this lawsuit tolls the warranty period until the suit is settled. Delaying tactics to push more vehicles out of warranty should not be allowed.

 

[cpa]

In response to Tesla's standard company line from the Service Center about how to drive to extend range, here are my actual data from our 2014 Model S:

Total mileage: 63,848.5 miles

Kilowatt-hours used to drive those miles: 17,776.5

Division reveals an average of 278.417 watt-hours per mile.

My 278.4 wh/mile is probably among the lowest of Model S owners (I know a few who have lower numbers). So, tell me Mr. Service Center Person, how much more slowly and gently do I need to drive in order to extend range? (when the nematode finally emerges from its dormant state.)

Oh, my Supercharger usage is 11,742 kWh, or 66%.

 

[omarsultan]

I tend to agree with @cpa on this--manufacturers have been trying to hide safety issues and weasel out of warranty claims for years--that is not new. What is novel, is the use of OTA SW updates to do it. It would seem the tools are already there, its just a matter which venue it plays out in first.

 

[Ande]

Apparently you've got the tool, but have no clue how to use it properly.
Energy between what you describe and 4.2v is almost irrelevant.
Check nominal full pack capacity and stop whining

 

[Ferrycraigs]

So i kind of always suspected my late 2014 S85 battery was capped, but today i finally charged it to 100% (got the app message saying it had finished charging to 100%) and the BMS on my recently installed Scan My Tesla finally proved it.
I should have around 4.2 v, but it looks like i actually have an average of 4.186 (with a max of 4.191 and a min of 4.178)

I WANT A NEW BATTERY!!!
Do you hear me Tesla?

And i want one that doesn't have the stupid sloooow charge rate at Superchargers like this one has since about June 2019.

Rant over.

Going to post this on the Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software thread too.

Not sure I would categorise 4.19V or 4.18V as capped. I think I would be delighted if my battery was at 4.18V

 

[sorka]

Teslafi is down to 4 Tesla's with V8 left mine included. So there are 3 others probably all of which are no longer on the road. Teslafi will still include stats for cars that have paying accounts.

 

[GigaGrunt]

Further observations: the insider who was leaking main informations back then in the above linked GF thread, @GigaGrunt shows a pretty similar writing style to a famous Twitter expert. So much insider info and product planning, that only a top executive qualifies

Have a link to that Twitter account? I may enjoy their writing...

 

[GigaGrunt]

Thanks for the info and the referenced links. Very interesting. I need to read more than just a glance.



Yup, I know who that might be. We need to know if "A large room just holding cells in a cure state would be a huge waste of space and inventory" is taking shortcut.

@IngTH , @Alchemist42: What's you take on this?

Also, realize that Model S cells are supplied by Panasonic in Japan, and then made into modules and packs at Fremont, not GF1.