Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[liamharry]

I know this is a batterygate not chargegate topic, but just thought I’d share some data as I was on a trip this week and took some photo’s when on SuC’s. Already mentioned have a capped 4.09V battery pack.

Have just had 2019.40.2.3 come up ready to be downloaded on Friday morning, but thought I’d wait until I return from our trip away in weeks time before I download.

So just a quick bit of info re charging speeds - got to charger with a relatively toasty battery and got following, starting at 10% SoC;

• 10% - Saw 120kW for about a split second, then dropped rapidly, caught a photo at 108kW, plummeting to around mid 90’s.
• 16% - 83kW
• 25% - 74kW
• 31% - 68kW
• 35% - 65kW
• 50% - 60kW
• 62% - 50kW
• 70% - 44kW
• 79% - 39kW

Only went to 80% on this occasion.

 

[First EV]

Yup, this is in keeping with the trends of Si valley lately. Many of them suddenly started to believe that release notes are not needed or are a thing of that past. It seems to have arrived with smart phones. Get a new update downloaded to your phone in the background and it usually tells you "update for the latest features and security." With no detail on what the actual update is. Since Tesla thinks cars are like cell phones, no release notes needed!

You're right because cell phones are considered old after two years why would Tesla think anything different of the cars they sell. I remember going into a service center 18 months ago and having them refer to my car as an old model S. Mine was a 2014 so basically a 3.5 year old car at the time. Perhaps I am out of touch with reality but I consider a 10yr old car to be old, 4 yr old or less to be newer and 2 yr old or less to be almost new. Or maybe it's Tesla that's out of touch...

 

[Droschke]

I know this is a batterygate not chargegate topic, but just thought I’d share some data as I was on a trip this week and took some photo’s when on SuC’s. Already mentioned have a capped 4.09V battery pack.

Have just had 2019.40.2.3 come up ready to be downloaded on Friday morning, but thought I’d wait until I return from our trip away in weeks time before I download.

So just a quick bit of info re charging speeds - got to charger with a relatively toasty battery and got following, starting at 10% SoC;

• 10% - Saw 120kW for about a split second, then dropped rapidly, caught a photo at 108kW, plummeting to around mid 90’s.
• 16% - 83kW
• 25% - 74kW
• 31% - 68kW
• 35% - 65kW
• 50% - 60kW
• 62% - 50kW
• 70% - 44kW
• 79% - 39kW

Only went to 80% on this occasion.

Your supercharging is doing better than mine. At 60% SoC, I'm already down to about 40kW. I won't go beyond 90% (capped) since it's already at about 10kW.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I know this is a batterygate not chargegate topic, but just thought I’d share some data as I was on a trip this week and took some photo’s when on SuC’s. Already mentioned have a capped 4.09V battery pack.

Have just had 2019.40.2.3 come up ready to be downloaded on Friday morning, but thought I’d wait until I return from our trip away in weeks time before I download.

So just a quick bit of info re charging speeds - got to charger with a relatively toasty battery and got following, starting at 10% SoC;

• 10% - Saw 120kW for about a split second, then dropped rapidly, caught a photo at 108kW, plummeting to around mid 90’s.
• 16% - 83kW
• 25% - 74kW
• 31% - 68kW
• 35% - 65kW
• 50% - 60kW
• 62% - 50kW
• 70% - 44kW
• 79% - 39kW

Only went to 80% on this occasion.

Similar to mine except you are getting nearly 10 kW more near the bottom.
30%=60 kW
50%=50 kW
70%=40 kW
I start to tail off sharply above 85% SoC.

 

[DJRas]

Similar to mine except you are getting nearly 10 kW more near the bottom.
30%=60 kW
50%=50 kW
70%=40 kW
I start to tail off sharply above 85% SoC.

I have stopped charging above 85% because of the severely diminished power/time payback.
So roughly 76% usable capacity from May 13, 2019.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I have stopped charging above 85% because of the severely diminished power/time payback.
So roughly 76% usable capacity from May 13, 2019.

Snap!

 

[FooFenix]

My P85 2013 was still on 2019.24.4 and received an update over 3G (!) a couple days ago. First I was clicking it away but now I allowed it to install to test a theory.

I've felt a drop in max power (and more frequent dashed lines) while driving at higher SoC, as well as weaker regen, since the summer. I was and still am getting less range (360km vs 375+ in May).
Obviously I've seen my SuC time double when >70% is needed, like everyone else.

But using SMT for weeks (couple months) now, my nominal capacity has been 73.8 kWh and it does charge to 4.19v @ 98%, so I assumed my car hasn't been #batterygate'd YET and I've been wondering what to do about this whole situation. After the summer I did ask Tesla to check the health of the pack which they reported was fine and tried to make me pay 100€ for the "test" while initially they'd said it would be free to look at the logs. I refused to pay, no news since.

The major question on my mind is whether to launch some sort of formal complaint (with Tesla and/or consumer protection bodies) about the issues I experience. Since I cannot PROVE the battery has been capped (it probably hasn't, yet), and I fear arguing #chargegate on its own will be tricky anyway, I've been delaying doing something about it. But it nags at me that this may be a worse tactic than registering my concerns anyway.

So now I just accepted the update in the hope, frankly, that it will demonstrably cap my battery as well. I won't charge it (close to) 100% the coming weeks, but I assume that a cap should be immediately visible as a lower nominal capacity, and higher SoC for the same actual energy in the pack. Is this assumption correct?

More generally, the "better monitoring of HV battery degradation" on the release notes - which I may see later or not - leads me to think Tesla is simply managing the widespread rollout of #batterygate. The amount of owners equipped with OBD tools is limited, and everyone else will not be able to show their own pre-cap data

Having announced this before the cap, they will claim capped cars are now simply (better) managing normal battery degradation. Which I guess even seems credible if one is completely unaware.

Does this make sense? What do others think?

Updated to 2019.40.2.3. As expected my car is now supposed to "better detect battery performance degradation" ...

Nominal capacity is now 73.7 kWh while it was 73.8 last time I checked. Such a small difference is not likely to result from the update right?

Of course the update could be a primer to start capping more progressively as others have reported. But since I won't touch the car for 2 weeks, and even after that won't drive much, I wonder how quickly I could see such an effect.

 

[omarsultan]

I have stopped charging above 85% because of the severely diminished power/time payback.
So roughly 76% usable capacity from May 13, 2019.

80% seems like the magic number for me--above that whether on my 80A HWC or a SC the taper is painful. Last time I tried supercharging above that, between 80% and 90% the SC tapered from 24 kW to 10 kW.

 

[Gixx1300R]

You guys have no idea how pissed off I am that my 85kwh battery now has only 62kwh of useable capacity

 

[ReddyLeaf]

You guys have no idea how pissed off I am that my 85kwh battery now has only 62kwh of useable capacity

Your avatar gives us a hint.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

You guys have no idea how pissed off I am that my 85kwh battery now has only 62kwh of useable capacity

Well at least that’s better than my 56 kWh of Useable Capacity.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

boy I hope the 2020's don't develop this issue

 

[doctorwho]

Just trying to put the amount in perspective. Not saying I would want to shell that kind of cash out every four years. Saving roughly $200 per month on fuel is useless if the battery must be replaced that often.

Where I used to spend roughly $300 per month in gasoline, I am spending about $100 per month to charge. So that would add $4800 to the $12K if a battery replacement were required every four years.

Sure, I appreciate that, but the only way to ensure that the problem doesn't recur every 4 years is to accept a new pack that is charge rate-limited and possibly voltage limited. They may be able to get around it by replacing 85->90, 60->75, etc

 

[Lukez]

Weird occurance yesterday. I'm not capped and still on 16.2
Car was sitting idle all day on the charger but not charging. I GAINED 10km of range. Ok, maybe it charged by itself and didn't notify me of charge complete.
I went out for drinks close by, about 1 mile drive. While the car was on the street not plugged in, I GAINED 2 kms.
Wtf
I only noticed because when I came back and went to plug in the battery was showing way more % than I thought I should have so I whipped out scanmytesla thinking I have been capped but nope the capacity was good. Looking over teslafi logs this morning and I see the GAINS during idles yesterday.
Wtf

 

[raphy3]

Weird occurance yesterday. I'm not capped and still on 16.2
Car was sitting idle all day on the charger but not charging. I GAINED 10km of range. Ok, maybe it charged by itself and didn't notify me of charge complete.
I went out for drinks close by, about 1 mile drive. While the car was on the street not plugged in, I GAINED 2 kms.
Wtf
I only noticed because when I came back and went to plug in the battery was showing way more % than I thought I should have so I whipped out scanmytesla thinking I have been capped but nope the capacity was good. Looking over teslafi logs this morning and I see the GAINS during idles yesterday.
Wtf

This happens to me frequently. Only started happening after a software update to one of the early V9's. I'm on 2018.50. never did any of that prior to that update.

 

[raphy3]

I don't need service done, I just want to not get updates and want the current one unstaged.
Anyway I scheduled an appointment we'll see what they say.

Don't we all
You're going to get a confused coolaid drinker looking at you askance
Asking you "why wouldn't you want OTA updates? OTA updates are innovative. They put us way ahead of the competition, who do not have OTA updates, and we can do anything to yourour car remotely! Did you know that 99% of problems can be diagnosed remotely and fixed with an OTA update? Also you're crazy"

 

[Droschke]

Sure, I appreciate that, but the only way to ensure that the problem doesn't recur every 4 years is to accept a new pack that is charge rate-limited and possibly voltage limited. They may be able to get around it by replacing 85->90, 60->75, etc

I know what you mean, but there is no guarantee that the capped or chargegated cars won't get even more capped and more chargegated if there is no acceptable resolution. Remember, these are just band-aids put on the wounds. The wound is still there and can get even more infected.

 

[gmo43]

boy I hope the 2020's don't develop this issue

Im sure in a few years you will get this lovely present from Tesla.

 

[Gr8pursuit]

Gr8pursuit said: ↑
According to Scan My Tesla app my Nominal full pack 68.6kwh, usable full pack 64.6 kwh, cell voltage min 4.092 max 4.096 @100% charge.
2015 P85D 46k miles, 200miles @90%, 220miles @100%, was 250, then 245 before all this b.s.
Am I capped?? Any other numbers I should be looking at on the app?

Totally capped. What does your DC charge and AC charge say?

DC charge total 10504kwh,,AC charge total 5658kwh, Regen total 8764kwh.
When I called Tesla to complain they said my battery had a CAC 217 whatever that meant and that
my battery was on par with all similar 85pks, I should of asked if he meant it was on par with all capped 85pks.

Haven't charged to 100% at a SC station for about a month or so hopefully I still can. And since I'm capped charging to 100% shouldn't degrade the battery since your really just charging to maybe 85-90% of the actually battery capacity???

 

[omarsultan]

Im sure in a few years you will get this lovely present from Tesla.

I would imagine they got smarter about this and take a boil the frog approach for newer cars--the reason we noticed is that we lost range in one fell swoop. If they are taken a bit away over time, most of us would have considered it regular degradation. Until Tesla guarantees a minimum percentage like they do with the Model 3 packs, I would consider any S/X suspect. The irony is that they can use us as the baseline for what "normal" is for future owners.