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Superchargers Doubling in 2019?

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
130
Pennsylvania
As happens at the start of every year Musk says the number of Superchargers will double... "Taking to Twitter, Musk specifically noted that Tesla’s Supercharger network will double by the end of 2019". At the end of 2018 there were 1426 charging stations worldwide and 1624 presently. The counts of stalls were 11894 at the end of 2018 and 14187 presently.

That's a 14% increase in stations and 19% increase in stalls. Anyone expect this to reach even 40% by the end of the year?

In particular it seems installations are limited by availability of the charging pedestals which are not even an active component. They are simply the cable and connector to plug into your car! There are only two reasons for not having enough of these units; poor planning and intentional. That is, Tesla is too inept to make enough components for their charging network expansion or they never even considered Musk's intention to double the network and allowed the pedestal production to be the bottleneck.

Since Musk has tweeted the same "doubling" plan every year, this is no surprise. Why does anyone listen to him when he says things like this?

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with even one new Supercharger in the area I prowl. I just don't get why they can't ramp up production so installations don't sit for months waiting for enough parts to finish the job!
 

Rockster

Active Member
Oct 22, 2013
3,022
4,708
McKinney, TX
Every single supercharger is a unique project, typically involving a city council, permits, inspectors, subcontractors, and weather considerations. I’ve even heard cases of city council members with auto dealership connections intentionally delaying supercharger permitting.

Quite honestly, I’m surprised that the buildout happens as quickly as it does.
 
Every single supercharger is a unique project, typically involving a city council, permits, inspectors, subcontractors, and weather considerations. I’ve even heard cases of city council members with auto dealership connections intentionally delaying supercharger permitting.

Quite honestly, I’m surprised that the buildout happens as quickly as it does.
Not acceptable. Tesla has been building these for years & knows the process associated so that's not an excuse. He knew what was involved & he still stated, in no uncertain terms, they would be doubling the Supercharger network again in 2019. It didn't happen. Not even close.
 
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T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
130
Pennsylvania
Every single supercharger is a unique project, typically involving a city council, permits, inspectors, subcontractors, and weather considerations. I’ve even heard cases of city council members with auto dealership connections intentionally delaying supercharger permitting.

Quite honestly, I’m surprised that the buildout happens as quickly as it does.

Why do you think this is the factor holding up the works??? Each application is made by the team who is building the station. It's not like Musk himself has to handle each one.

I'm not sure how auto dealerships have any say in the matter. This is not something that typically requires zoning changes, so no public review. It's really pretty cut and dried. No city council hearing unless it is going to be on public property. Most are at privately owned properties like shopping centers and gas stations.

I really like the weather issue. When they build roads around here they plan for zero weather delays in years long projects. That way they ALWAYS have an excuse for not completing the project on time.

Installing Superchargers typically don't even show up on the public's roadmap until the permitting is complete and construction is ready to start. At that point the only issue with the bureaucracy is final inspection. The only reason for failing that is lack of attention to detail by the installation crew.
 
Why do you think this is the factor holding up the works??? Each application is made by the team who is building the station. It's not like Musk himself has to handle each one.

I'm not sure how auto dealerships have any say in the matter. This is not something that typically requires zoning changes, so no public review. It's really pretty cut and dried. No city council hearing unless it is going to be on public property. Most are at privately owned properties like shopping centers and gas stations.

I really like the weather issue. When they build roads around here they plan for zero weather delays in years long projects. That way they ALWAYS have an excuse for not completing the project on time.

Installing Superchargers typically don't even show up on the public's roadmap until the permitting is complete and construction is ready to start. At that point the only issue with the bureaucracy is final inspection. The only reason for failing that is lack of attention to detail by the installation crew.

Completly agree.. Musk should not say he is "doubling" the Supercharger network. I rolled my eyes at that statement ( again) last year.
But, you have completely over simplified the effort involved in planning, coordinating, schmoozing, approving, and finally, constructioning 700 supercharging sites with as many different agencies..yeah.. 700 agencies.. good luck.

It took me 6 months to build 4 destination chargers.. It was a side project for fun, but just coordination with PGE took 3 months.






B
 

jboy210

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
6,559
4,467
Northern California
OK, but you live in Cali. The rest of us don't get as much love...

You need to get more people to buy Teslas. Not unusual to pull to a stop light and see 5-6 Teslas waiting for the light. I bet if they buy that many where you are you will get more Superchargers.

BTW, this also means that some Superchargers are permanently on high usage status with 80% max. And no one says "Cali" here.:)
 

jboy210

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
6,559
4,467
Northern California
Why do you think this is the factor holding up the works??? Each application is made by the team who is building the station. It's not like Musk himself has to handle each one.

I'm not sure how auto dealerships have any say in the matter. This is not something that typically requires zoning changes, so no public review. It's really pretty cut and dried. No city council hearing unless it is going to be on public property. Most are at privately owned properties like shopping centers and gas stations.

I really like the weather issue. When they build roads around here they plan for zero weather delays in years long projects. That way they ALWAYS have an excuse for not completing the project on time.

Installing Superchargers typically don't even show up on the public's roadmap until the permitting is complete and construction is ready to start. At that point the only issue with the bureaucracy is final inspection. The only reason for failing that is lack of attention to detail by the installation crew.

Negotiation, permitting and weather is what holds up the construction by us. Telsa must negotiate with the property owners. Some are reluctant because they lose parking spots in their shopping center. And there is the hassle of tearing up the parking lot. This appears to have killed one Supercharger at a local Target because one of the other stores complained the traffic would cost them sales.

Permitting by my can take months with every entity (police, traffic, power companies, etc,) getting a say. And yes, this includes private parking lots. And then a several month public comment period.

And on our newest Supercharger, weather was a big issue. It is close by so I talked to guys and their crews did not worked when it rained, or if it rained and they had to spend a day pumping out the trenches and multiple days wait for ground to dry out.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
11,659
9,756
Maine
As happens at the start of every year Musk says the number of Superchargers will double... "Taking to Twitter, Musk specifically noted that Tesla’s Supercharger network will double by the end of 2019". At the end of 2018 there were 1426 charging stations worldwide and 1624 presently. The counts of stalls were 11894 at the end of 2018 and 14187 presently.

That's a 14% increase in stations and 19% increase in stalls. Anyone expect this to reach even 40% by the end of the year?

In particular it seems installations are limited by availability of the charging pedestals which are not even an active component. They are simply the cable and connector to plug into your car! There are only two reasons for not having enough of these units; poor planning and intentional. That is, Tesla is too inept to make enough components for their charging network expansion or they never even considered Musk's intention to double the network and allowed the pedestal production to be the bottleneck.

Since Musk has tweeted the same "doubling" plan every year, this is no surprise. Why does anyone listen to him when he says things like this?

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with even one new Supercharger in the area I prowl. I just don't get why they can't ramp up production so installations don't sit for months waiting for enough parts to finish the job!

You're assuming the delay is equipment-related, rather than simple cost control: demand charges don't start until the juice is flowing.

People still take Musk's bullshit seriously because it's positive bullshit they want to be true. It's over 6 months since the Supercharger v3 reveal, and almost 5 months since Autonomy/Begging for Billions day and there's very little and nothing respectively to show for them.
 

daviddavid

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 10, 2019
210
111
Chicago Area
Sorry, but permitting, construction, and planning are part of the business you are in. No excuses there. As for why the network isn't expanding? The same reason they are slowing everything else down......cash. They are burning cash at an unbelievable rate. Adding Superchargers does nothing for bringing immediate cash in the door. They need to divert everything to getting cash king. I was talking to a tech that was charging at the Bolingbrook, IL charger and he told me that they now have only one tech to maintain the entire midwest region of Superchargers. One guy to keep all of these things running. They are running thin while they are trying to stay above the cash flow water level. That is MHO. I really do hope they make it. But Musk making statements like that will not help the credibility of the org. He needs to dial down his statements. They are not helping Tesla long-term.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
7,636
Canyon Lake,CA
While not doubling, Tesla has rolled out more Superchargers than anyone else.
They have also increased the charging speeds of their cars and the chargers for faster through put.

I find it a better analysis of Tesla accomplishments to not judge him by what he says, but by what he accomplishes.

Don't know of anybody that has actually accomplished more than Elon.

I have a couple trips coming up this Fall. Noticed that there are more Superchargers along those routes than last year. Seems like Tesla is concentrating on eliminating those Supercharger gaps along many of the gaps.

In San Diego, the build out has been very welcome. Lots of options now. They are close to opening up a new one in Menifee to serve the I-2-15 corridor.
 

daviddavid

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 10, 2019
210
111
Chicago Area
While not doubling, Tesla has rolled out more Superchargers than anyone else.
They have also increased the charging speeds of their cars and the chargers for faster through put.

I find it a better analysis of Tesla accomplishments to not judge him by what he says, but by what he accomplishes.

Don't know of anybody that has actually accomplished more than Elon.

I have a couple trips coming up this Fall. Noticed that there are more Superchargers along those routes than last year. Seems like Tesla is concentrating on eliminating those Supercharger gaps along many of the gaps.

In San Diego, the build out has been very welcome. Lots of options now. They are close to opening up a new one in Menifee to serve the I-2-15 corridor.


Let me be clear. I love Tesla. I really do love Elon. His accomplishments are outstanding. What could help him though is to be a tad more realistic. I do agree, things are getting better, but there are TONS more cars out there. Many of the chargers are pretty busy these days and that will accelerate as more 3's hit the road.

Good problem I guess.
 

jboy210

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
6,559
4,467
Northern California
But Musk making statements like that will not help the credibility of the org. He needs to dial down his statements. They are not helping Tesla long-term.

Agreed. And have you notice his twitter stream is getting pretty quiet. Hopefully the board has show him he is CEO, no longer Chairman of the board. A board which can show him the door.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,091
Delaware
I wonder if problems with the new v# hardware have delayed site openings? If they have a bunch of locations they were planning to install as v3, and they had logistic problems with the new systems, that'd lead to significant delays - they couldn't just build it to v2 standards even if they have the hardware, because that's not what the permit calls for.

I got several useful new SpCs this year, but I know there are some folks are getting really frustrated with - like all of North Dakota.
 
You need to get more people to buy Teslas. Not unusual to pull to a stop light and see 5-6 Teslas waiting for the light. I bet if they buy that many where you are you will get more Superchargers.

BTW, this also means that some Superchargers are permanently on high usage status with 80% max. And no one says "Cali" here.:)
OK, I will get right on that with my sandwich sign on the corner.:) How should it read so it is bold and short while attracting the most buyers? Maybe this... WILL WORK FOR S-3-X-Y CAR. It might get me another one or lead to conversation where others may buy one too! BTW we don't call ourselves Zonies either.;)
 
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While not doubling, Tesla has rolled out more Superchargers than anyone else.
They have also increased the charging speeds of their cars and the chargers for faster through put.

I find it a better analysis of Tesla accomplishments to not judge him by what he says, but by what he accomplishes.

Don't know of anybody that has actually accomplished more than Elon.

I have a couple trips coming up this Fall. Noticed that there are more Superchargers along those routes than last year. Seems like Tesla is concentrating on eliminating those Supercharger gaps along many of the gaps.

In San Diego, the build out has been very welcome. Lots of options now. They are close to opening up a new one in Menifee to serve the I-2-15 corridor.

I don't care what competitors have done. I bought my Teslas based on Tesla's Supercharger network. I was told they would double locations this year and not only is it not 200% as promised.. it's 14%. That's a pretty stark difference. Couple that with the fact they have been selling cars at a drastically higher rate and you're not even coming close to keeping up with new cars on the road in terms of Superchargers.

In my experience, most locations in the middle of nowhere still have capacity. There are many stretches of interstate that still need locations though to be able to travel entirely on the Supercharger network. That's a problem that should have been addressed easily within this calendar year given the rate of growth Elon stated.

Locations in heavily populated areas or near them has been a capacity issue which is getting worse. Much worse. Lines are forming at places where stalls were previously available and places where they were already running at capacity things are getting confusing with how many people are waiting for open chargers. Depending on your use case this can be more than just a minor inconvenience.

Bottom line, this should be much more of an issue than it has been to this point. Not only are they not creating Superchargers to meet current demand but they're still selling cars daily which will continue increasing demand. This is a problem and the Tesla apologists can't come up with reasoning that's acceptable.
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
130
Pennsylvania
Completly agree.. Musk should not say he is "doubling" the Supercharger network. I rolled my eyes at that statement ( again) last year.
But, you have completely over simplified the effort involved in planning, coordinating, schmoozing, approving, and finally, constructioning 700 supercharging sites with as many different agencies..yeah.. 700 agencies.. good luck.

It took me 6 months to build 4 destination chargers.. It was a side project for fun, but just coordination with PGE took 3 months.

B

I still don't understand your point. Yes, each installation takes time. So? No one is talking about how quickly they put up a given installation (other than the pedestal shortages which is inexcusable). The issue is that they keep talking about doubling the number of chargers, fully aware of the issues (all of which have ready solutions) and failing to accomplish what is actually a simple thing to do given a budget and manpower.

Musk actually made his statement in early November of 2018 I think so it's not like he couldn't have made it happen if he really wanted to rather than just talking through his hat like he usually does. "Funding secured"...
 

T3slaOwner

Member Extraordinaire
Aug 2, 2019
313
130
Pennsylvania
You need to get more people to buy Teslas. Not unusual to pull to a stop light and see 5-6 Teslas waiting for the light. I bet if they buy that many where you are you will get more Superchargers.

BTW, this also means that some Superchargers are permanently on high usage status with 80% max. And no one says "Cali" here.:)

I think you misunderstand. We aren't the ones in the zoo... (an analogy to the many sci fi stories where people end up in an alien zoo) Your area is the anomaly. Those you are addressing your comment to are the rest of the world. In other words, the "doubling" of your local Superchargers is an aberration and is not relevant to the discussion.
 
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