Tesla Supercharger network

[JST]

Nice work, daxz. I'm figuring that the Tesla employees proof-of-concept trip won't happen without a) incident and b) sleep breaks. I'm going to guesstimate those and put my money on 76:54 hours.

I guess we need some ground rules/assumptions to make this meaningful. Anybody want to put up a straw man?

My guess is that wherever they are going, it's not DC. Or at least, that's not their destination. If what we've been hearing about a temporary supercharger in Bethesda is correct, that suggests that they are passing through DC on their way to somewhere else. Hagerstown to DC is an easy jump, and if the trip were stopping there that's all you'd need.

Maybe they're going to Miami? Spring Break in Lauderdale? Are there any meaningful launches happening at Canaveral in the early spring?

Disney tie-in?

 

[Kevin Harney]

My guess is that wherever they are going, it's not DC. Or at least, that's not their destination. If what we've been hearing about a temporary supercharger in Bethesda is correct, that suggests that they are passing through DC on their way to somewhere else. Hagerstown to DC is an easy jump, and if the trip were stopping there that's all you'd need.

Maybe they're going to Miami? Spring Break in Lauderdale? Are there any meaningful launches happening at Canaveral in the early spring?

Disney tie-in?

And Bethesda would imply a northerly route so probably something like LA to NY

 

[Cottonwood]

My new, proposed rule of thumb is the distance (D) between Superchargers with a difference in elevation (A) has to meet the following criterion for an M85:

1.5*D + 0.007*A < 200 rated miles

D in actual road miles, 1.5 rated miles/road mile
A in feet, 7 rated miles/1,000 feet​

I have pushed the limit on my MS several times. Its 237 miles from my house in Pagosa to Silverthorne. Before the 70-Amp J-1772 in Salida, I hypermiled this into the wind and cold (although never both). However, most folks just want to drive the car, they don't want to wait 1.5 hours or more for a range charge, drive 50 mph on a 2-lane road with 65 mph speed limit where most are doing 75-80, etc. My goal is to have a threshold that serves two purposes; it makes reasonably fast, cross-country travel possible, and it makes it easier to just drive the MS between Superchargers and have fun.

I did a few examples as a sanity check. See below.

All of the first four fail the test. They are doable, but will require care and/or additional charge time. Gallup-Farmington and Worthington-Albert Lea are from the existing set and are good examples of nice spacing that Tesla has built into the Elon, cross-country route. Macedonia-Cranberry and Cranberry-Somerset are good examples of how nice and easy it is, if a difficult pair is split.

Cheyenne-Silverthorne seems especially problematic because you have to get through the Eisenhower Tunnel first at 11,000 feet. However the 9 miles closer distance almost offsets the 2,000 feet higher altitude and the net is only 3 more rated miles of difficulty.

Update:

Wasn't Williams, AZ on one of the earlier maps from Tesla? If you plug the numbers into my formula for Kingman-Williams, you get 195, perfect. Its a little close to Flagstaff, but the pair could make for great off- and back on-ramps for folks going east or west on I-40, and doing a side trip to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Maybe Elon will do something like that... :wink:

 

[airj1012]

There was a ribbon cutting ceremony this morning for the Santee, SC location. I don't have any pictures but I do have a report from an attendee. They were chatting with a Raleigh, NC service guy and he said that they used Lumberton, NC to power up on the way down. Although it may not be on the map just yet, I think it may be operational. Maybe they'll flip the switch tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Cottonwood]

The "Today" and "Coming Soon" dots are very similar now. Only about 10 dots to go!

Last I counted there were 88 or 89 dots on the "Coming Soon" map, depending on whether or not Cleveland got a double dot. Given that there are 78 "Open" plus "Construction" locations on the Teslawiki Superchargers page, I agree that there are about 10 Supercharger sites yet to be found to complete the current "Coming Soon" phase.

 

[Gear]

Maybe they're going to Miami? Spring Break in Lauderdale? Are there any meaningful launches happening at Canaveral in the early spring?

Disney tie-in?

If they're going for a speed record, I doubt they'd waste time going all the way to Florida. Maybe Elon will for his trip.

 

[smartypnz]

I would like to see posted at each SC - the projected rated miles (with a safety buffer) to the next SC in each direction.

Previous passing owner's experience (if it could be tabulated) could be averaged including data with temp, weather, time of day, miles at start from previous SC, time to charge, passenger load, or anything that may affect the next leg.

Not sure how to implement, but would be helpful to shorten the stay for charging.

 

[100thMonkey]

has anyone boiled it down to what the ideal portion of the battery is for maximum miles of range gained in shortest time and also where the point of diminishing returns is in terms of driving faster vs having to spend more time recharging? I've noticed with long trips in the Leaf that there was a speed that was ideal, that if you went over it, you'd simply spend that much more time charging so there was no real incentive to go beyond a certain speed when going long distances. If you were trying to make a speed record, you'd need to nail these factors down, cycling the battery in the ideal range and keeping to an ideal speed. The Tesla SC's should allow for a significantly higher speed to charging time ratio than the Leaf, for the Leaf, it was something like 50 miles an hour, depending on topography, ambient temps and overall weather conditions.

 

[Gear]

I would like to see posted at each SC - the projected rated miles (with a safety buffer) to the next SC in each direction.

Previous passing owner's experience (if it could be tabulated) could be averaged including data with temp, weather, time of day, miles at start from previous SC, time to charge, passenger load, or anything that may affect the next leg.

Not sure how to implement, but would be helpful to shorten the stay for charging.

It's a great idea, but I think it'd be easier to integrate into the nav. Input your final destination and it tells you which SC's to stop at and how long to charge to make the fastest overall trip time. Tesla really needs to get on this, as well as some status reporting of available charging slots at the SC you're headed to, and whether or not the SC is online in general. The last one isn't really much of a concern to me, but it seems it'd ease some people's anxieties.

 

[emupilot]

has anyone boiled it down to what the ideal portion of the battery is for maximum miles of range gained in shortest time and also where the point of diminishing returns is in terms of driving faster vs having to spend more time recharging? I've noticed with long trips in the Leaf that there was a speed that was ideal, that if you went over it, you'd simply spend that much more time charging so there was no real incentive to go beyond a certain speed when going long distances. If you were trying to make a speed record, you'd need to nail these factors down, cycling the battery in the ideal range and keeping to an ideal speed. The Tesla SC's should allow for a significantly higher speed to charging time ratio than the Leaf, for the Leaf, it was something like 50 miles an hour, depending on topography, ambient temps and overall weather conditions.

Thanks to supercharging, one can charge a Tesla far faster than driving it so it is easy to optimize. Go as fast as you dare and minimize charging time by running on empty and only charging long enough to just barely make it to the next supercharger at your chosen speed. You only need to consider going slower if it is to avoid range charging.

 

[bluetinc]

The easy answer is the closer to 0 you stay the faster the charge. Diminishing returns happen somewhere around 80 - 90% SOC, where the charge rate drops to around 20kW (around 1 mile per minute or 60 mph....)

Peter

has anyone boiled it down to what the ideal portion of the battery is for maximum miles of range gained in shortest time and also where the point of diminishing returns is in terms of driving faster vs having to spend more time recharging? I've noticed with long trips in the Leaf that there was a speed that was ideal, that if you went over it, you'd simply spend that much more time charging so there was no real incentive to go beyond a certain speed when going long distances. If you were trying to make a speed record, you'd need to nail these factors down, cycling the battery in the ideal range and keeping to an ideal speed. The Tesla SC's should allow for a significantly higher speed to charging time ratio than the Leaf, for the Leaf, it was something like 50 miles an hour, depending on topography, ambient temps and overall weather conditions.

 

[crazybrit]

That has got to be harder on the battery though, wouldn't you think?

The easy answer is the closer to 0 you stay the faster the charge. Diminishing returns happen somewhere around 80 - 90% SOC, where the charge rate drops to around 20kW (around 1 mile per minute or 60 mph....)

Peter

 

[anticitizen13.7]

The website once again says 200 miles of charge in 30 minutes (from the previous 170).

Am I correct to assume that Tesla can adjust the charge curve on each Supercharger with a software update?

200 miles of charge in the time it takes to eat lunch is amazing to me.

 

[donauker]

Yes and I have not heard anything about the planned site in Harrisburg, PA, which would take you down to Newark, DE also. Has anyone been scouting that location?

It's been awhile since I checked around there. When it didn't make the coming soon list I figured it wasn't in the works yet. Hope to get there again within the next couple of weeks.

 

[wycolo]

'Coast to Coast' would not be achieved by terminating at Washington DC. There has to be waves, breakers, the smell of salt air.

Awaiting return call from Cheyenne Electric Co today. Last week they could not come up with anything re SC hookup.

Cranberry, PA: area around Pittsburgh PA is very hilly but regen should retrieve 80% of that as you go down the other side. So likely a 20% hit in 'roller coaster country'.
--

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

My new, proposed rule of thumb is the distance (D) between Superchargers with a difference in elevation (A) has to meet the following criterion for an M85: 1.5*D + 0.007*A < 200 rated miles

[...] I know that this is a conservative rule, but let me explain the parts.

• 1.5 Rated Miles per Actual Mile - To be able to drive 80+ mph in a 75 mph zone, deal with extreme heat or cold, headwinds, slush and ice, etc., requires margin. For an 85, 1 Rated mile is 290 W-hr; 1.5 times that is 435 W-hr/mi. My experience, and from what I have seen from other experiences in this list makes me think this is a reasonable threshold. You may not be able to go fast, into a headwind, in extreme cold with this threshold, but at least you can take on, and subdue, one or two of these range anxiety demons with this threshold while letting the others sleep.
• 7 Miles per 1,000 Feet - This is the potential energy that it takes to get an MS up a mountain. It's real, I have calculated it from basics, and verified it on many mountain drives in the Rockies. Some will argue that regen is lossy, but that is really second order, not of consequence for this discussion, and I am always ready to discuss it elsewhere.
• 200 Mile Threshold - This is for an M85. 80% of a battery that has degraded to 250 rated miles max range is 200 rated miles. After 80% State of Charge (SoC), the taper is just annoying. If you want to have a fun, quick Tesla-Supercharger-enabled trip, you should never have to charge to more than 80% SoC.

I believe rated energy consumption in the S85 and P85 is 308 Wh/mile, not 290. I can't offer input on energy consumption during long, fast drives (yet), but if you're seeing 435 Wh/mile then the multiplier should be about 1.4.

 

[Cottonwood]

[/LIST]I believe rated energy consumption in the S85 and P85 is 308 Wh/mile, not 290. I can't offer input on energy consumption during long, fast drives (yet), but if you're seeing 435 Wh/mile then the multiplier should be about 1.4.

Yes, what is a rated mile?

I know that the Energy display uses 308, but if you carefully track how actual miles vs rated miles tick away, you will find that if you achieve 290 Wh/mi in the "since last charge" trip displays, they are equal. For a more likely scenario:

Rated Miles Used = (Trip Wh/mi) / (290 Wh/mi) * Miles Driven​

Because charging is displayed in Rated Miles of the 290 Wh/mi variety, that is how I did the equation.

This is meant to be a rough, conservative equation, if your driving is more like 1.4 x, use that. What I have found is that if I charge for 1.5*ActualMiles, corrected for elevation at 7mi/1,000ft, I always arrive at my destination with some margin. If it is a bad headwind and cold, I may have to slow down some, but I will get there without anxiety. Note, there are always driving styles that will break my rule, YMMV. Will I launch into a hypermile journey with more care if I have to, sure, but the beauty of well placed Superchargers is that I can use my simple rule and have fun driving.

 

[MikeC]

I agree that driving ~290-295 Wh/mi is when actual miles seem to match rated miles. At 308 Wh/mi, I definitely lost rated miles faster than actual.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I agree that driving ~290-295 Wh/mi is when actual miles seem to match rated miles. At 308 Wh/mi, I definitely lost rated miles faster than actual.

putting #'s into all my data I see it the balance @ X = 276 Wh/mi to make my lifetime trip balance = 1.0009
using
average ( trip mi*Whr/mi)/(rated mi before drive-rated after drive) / X

stdev is ~1
1360 data points

this might include a couple of losses that I didn't account for but I almost always write the rated mi when getting in and out of my car
but this has nothing to do with the SC network now..

 

[crazybrit]

I am planning a trip to Champaign IL on Monday, and I have been trying to figure out the best way to approach it. I created this spreadsheet to figure out how long the trip will take with various scenarios. I actually have the luxury of more superchargers than I need, but it is much faster to grab a quick charge at all of them (last scenario). Do my numbers look reasonable?

I am assuming a conservative burn-rate of 450wh/m