[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[randompixel]

Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based...

www.tesla.com

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based Autopilot system.

Since launch, we have continued to make incremental improvements in both feature parity and safety. Compared to radar-equipped vehicles, Model 3 and Model Y with Tesla Vision have either maintained or improved their active safety ratings in the US and Europe, and perform better in pedestrian automatic emergency braking (AEB) intervention.

Today, we are taking the next step in Tesla Vision by removing ultrasonic sensors (USS) from Model 3 and Model Y. We will continue this rollout with Model 3 and Model Y, globally, over the next few months, followed by Model S and Model X in 2023.

Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.

For a short period of time during this transition, Tesla Vision vehicles that are not equipped with USS will be delivered with some features temporarily limited or inactive, including:

Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling <5 mph.
Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces.
Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app.
Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app.
In the near future, once these features achieve performance parity to today’s vehicles, they will be restored via a series of over-the-air software updates. All other available Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability features will be active at delivery, depending on order configuration.

Given the incremental improvements already achieved with Tesla Vision, and our roadmap of future Autopilot improvements and abilities, we are confident that this is the best strategy for the future of Autopilot and the safety of our customers.

That removes most the features from Enhanced AutoPilot for the near future!

 

[DevMar]

Am I also right in understanding that’ll remove the beeps when parking?! Perfectly ok for the cameras to replace rear beeps, but front sensors are something I’ve grown to love over the years, especially for things like high curbs!!!!

Edit: remove the beeps when parking temporarily until they roll out the replacement with no specific timeframe*

One would assume they’ve thought this through…. SURELY

 

[Danny_F]

This is such a backwards and ridiculous move that can only be driven by a desire to cost cut.

Tesla isn't exactly known for the quality of their cameras after all.

I am praying mine still comes with USS.

 

[DevMar]

This is such a backwards and ridiculous move that can only be driven by a desire to cost cut.

Tesla isn't exactly known for the quality of their cameras after all.

I am praying mine still comes with USS.

I suppose USS-gate will have to be the Q4 talking front now that parcel shelves and slightly smoother suspension has been cleared up.

I find it hard to believe that there’ll be October made cars with the sensors - seems like a tiny change, and a full RoRo batch of cars can be built in one day.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best - I won’t be rejecting my car for this, but I’ll be mightily annoyed! Probably try and plead ignorance with what I ordered not being fully delivered! And you never know, by November the solution could be resolved enough.

Although if I ordered EAP my tune would probably be different….

 

[Toblerone]

This is such a backwards and ridiculous move that can only be driven by a desire to cost cut.

I’d say it’s a desire to simplify. It will save cost on physical parts and build, but will cost more short/medium term in software engineers and computing.

Just like with radar they are eliminating sensor conflict and doubling down on vision.

There are posts on here today of people complaining the current configuration can’t tell the difference between a building and a lorry. Vision may fix this eventually. Time will tell.

As far as your car coming with USS, you may as well not bother as they will be disabled at some point in the future, just like the cars with radar.
There will only be limitations on features that don’t work too well in the Uk anyway. Auto park & summon.

You know they are planning to remove indicator stalks as well?

 

[Durzel]

The rear one I would have some confidence in the camera being able to work out (heavy emphasis on "some") because it's on the boot lid which is pretty much where the USS are.

In the case of the front though - the only front facing camera is at the top of the windscreen, some distance from the leading edge of the front bumper.

That does not bode well, I don't think, particularly if this Tesla Vision system simulates beeps that people start trying to rely on. At least with USS you can be certain the signal is accurate.

 

[candida]

There will only be limitations on features that don’t work too well in the Uk anyway. Auto park & summon.

The article says in terms park assist - which is the beeps and indications on the screen you’re about to hit something in front the camera can’t see over the bonnet - will be “temporarily” disabled.
I guess most of us use that all the time.

Suppose Musk needs to make savings for Twitter. How much is an ultrasonic sensor? A quid? Assume £/$ parity, divide 55 billion by eight and a production rate of a million cars a year, I reckon we will see sensors back in 70 years.

Madness. I’m off to bed

 

[Zilla91]

What a stupid decision. Good luck using Tesla Vision parking sensors in the winter when the rear camera is covered in muck.

 

[Durzel]

What a stupid decision. Good luck using Tesla Vision parking sensors in the winter when the rear camera is covered in muck.

Very good point. In winter the arse end on the car will basically be caked in dirt. That isn’t a problem for ultrasonics.

As per the rain sensor that just works, Tesla/Musk seem hell bent on forcing inadequate systems to replace fully functional ones. I get the argument that visually all we have are our eyes to rely on when driving, but that logic is specious in my opinion, and even if it were true - sometimes technology is just better, I couldn’t tell you precisely in inches how far I’m away from a wall but ultrasonics can.

 

[Zilla91]

It’s cost cutting, it’s simple as that. They’ll spin it as something else and people will lap it up but the reality is it’s cost cutting and as long as we keep buying their cars they’ll keep on getting away with it.

 

[Adopado]

What a stupid decision. Good luck using Tesla Vision parking sensors in the winter when the rear camera is covered in muck.

It took me a while to realise that this isn’t just a joke! We can only hope it’s more successful than doing without a dedicated wipers sensor… vision now works ok during the daylight but I drove in the dark tonight in light rain and had to resort to using manual settings. It’s pitch black where I park and with a meagre reversing light I am concerned that it simply won’t work. Add in the constantly dirty rear camera….

 

[init6]

In the case of the front though - the only front facing camera is at the top of the windscreen, some distance from the leading edge of the front bumper.

Wouldn't items in front of the car be seen by the cameras before they 'disappeared' under the leading edge? I suspect there may be some 3D mapping going on.

I hadn't come across the temp occupancy network before, so some light reading if anyone wants to learn a bit more:

A Look at Tesla's Occupancy Networks

In 2022, Tesla announced a brand new algorithm about to be released in their vehicles. This algorithm is named occupancy networks, and it is supposed to improve the HydraNets from Tesla. But how does it work? Why is it needed? Let's find out... Why a new kind of algorithm is

www.thinkautonomous.ai

 

[Durzel]

That would entirely depend on what it registers, I’d say. Does it spot and track posts? Or low walls, etc? i.e. stuff that the ultrasonics would handle.

How long is the persistence of vision? If you stop and then move forward after a short period, does it remember the stuff that was in front?

And ultimately we’re talking about a safety critical system here. It’s not like auto headlights or auto wipers where poor performance is just annoying, a failure of this system could lead to collisions and very expensive repairs, or worse.

 

[Rooster6655]

Sounds ridiculous, I expect them to disable the USS like they done with the radar in an unexpected update, so I will be careful rushing to update!

 

[blower]

All this camera stuff is all well and good in nice sunny dry conditions - but it all goes to crap in British spitty rain weather. I can't count how many times i've had a warning that it can't see out of the left or right pillar cameras - it's dozens of times in the past few weeks anyway.

Yesterday it was wet, misty, spitty rain - when I went to reverse in the dark, I could see next to sod all out of the rear view camera which is exposed - it was a blur.....thankfully the ultrasonic sensors did a good job to make sure I didn't get too close to a car behind me. I could have looked out of the rear windscreen - but oh yeah, I forgot - you can only see half of it in a model 3 and without a windscreen wiper you can see nothing out of the other half when it's raining.

I've had autopilot disengage in the rain a couple of times - I'm presuming because it can't see too well in the pouring rain.

At the rate they are removing sensors and relying on camera tech - it won't be long before the UK ASA forces Tesla to say half their systems, including basic ones like parking sensors, don't work in the rain and for safety reasons the car should only be driven when it's not raining.

 

[Brolan]

It’s damn dumb. You can’t see forwards below the sight line of the car, so will this catch a small dog that runs in from the side below the front sight line?

It makes the cars cheap. They charge a luxury car price but have few luxury features. Now they just removed one of the only ones they had.

 

[blower]

It makes the cars cheap. They charge a luxury car price but have few luxury features. Now they just removed one of the only ones they had.

Indeed - hardly any cars nowadays are delivered without parking sensors, only the ultra base models don't come with them....hell a £20k Vauxhall Corsa at least has rear parking sensors. At the very least you can usually add them for not much cash as an option.

I don't see USS as a luxury - but an expected to be included option on any car above £20k....let alone £60K!

I'm glad they are in mine, and I will have to resist any software update that tries to remove the function of them at a later date. I can see there being far more of an uproar on their removal in software when the wonky camera system inevitably causes collisions or ceases to function entirely under various environmental conditions.

Tesla's mantra seems to be everything can be replaced by software - soon you will order a Tesla and won't actually be delivered a car, but a VR headset that just puts you into a virtual world where you can drive your car.

 

[MrBadger]

Hmmm, “coming soon” just like most of the features of FSD…

Maybe some hint that some/all features/benefits of single stack is going to land before ‘end of the month’ like it was touted to do iirc last October. Occupancy network is great for somethings (surprised that it’s not been part of autopilot all along as it’s pretty fundamental to tracking objects in space and time) but I can think of several scenarios where ultrasonic sensors will detect objects/people that will come out of nowhere as far as cameras are concerned.

Another step too far for me.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I’ll keep an open mind as to whether it can work or not, my problem for now is simply the order they do things. TV parking needs to be here and working, there should be no reduction in performance or feature count, and then remove the sensors, not the other way.

 

[CWT3LR]

Tesla is touted as a car company that makes your car better over time as it downloads updates to improve the software.

What they don't tell you is that they make the hardware worse over time, or even non-functional. Over time the car is measurably worse. Switching off functionality I have already paid for is starting to feel like fraud.