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Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]
- Thread starter MS-Alec
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- class action fsd fsdc
Which is a problem because Vroom likely isn't the owner of record. (Dealers don't seem to ever register the vehicles with Tesla.) So even they can't get information from Tesla. (If they did register it with Tesla that would likely trigger the removal of FSD that happened before the car went to auction and Vroom acquired it.)
Tam
Well-Known Member
An e-mail or a picture of the Brooklyn bridge is not legal proof that I own it.
Emails and screenshots are not proof of purchase when Tesla might take your FSD away justifiably or erroneously.
Tesla will ask for proof of purchase. If FSD was purchased, it would be documented on a sale receipt. If it's from Tesla, it's called "Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement". If it's purchased later, there should be an invoice as proof too.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Vroom claiming to sell you FSD is enough. You don't need to dig any deeper yourself - if they claim it is sold, they owe it to you. If Tesla steals it later, that's between Tesla and Vroom to hash it out and corporation versus corporation court battles are more likely to change Tesla's anti consumer policies any way. They almost seem to enjoy taking from us individual owners. I'd look at it like insurance - it might be the other party's fault but you don't need to sue them directly. You paid insurance and they can sue the third party to get their money back if they want. You get what you paid for and that's all that matters.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Not that simple.
If Vroom documents on its receipt that it sold you premium wheels and you brought it home.
Then someone entered into your home, switched that premium set out, and replaced it back with standard wheels, and your home security system shows that it's not Vroom staff who did the switch (guess who did?).
Vroom delivered the goods and the steal happened at the customer's home. It's not Vroom's responsibility to restore that loss.
I clarified with Vroom and at least they were knowledgeable to tell me that they cannot guarantee the FSD will stay and only guarantee it will come with AP.
I placed my order for a used X 100D through Tesla instead, because after considering the FSD pricing, uncorked acceleration, and the extra year of warranty it is still cheaper than 3rd car dealers.
I placed my order for a used X 100D through Tesla instead, because after considering the FSD pricing, uncorked acceleration, and the extra year of warranty it is still cheaper than 3rd car dealers.
The issue when this first occurred was Tesla sold a car at auction and they listed it without FSD but the car still had it enabled. So which is correct? The specification or the actual car? Its easy to argue its the better of the two but this was a trade sale and I'm not sure how the laws work in each country regarding that. Dealer, sold with the spec the car had activated even though they'd been told by Tesla (in the spec) the car didn't have it. they took a chance in a way to do that thinking they'd got lucky. Tesla were slow in making the car match the spec which was stupid.
Imagine what would happen if someone sold a car they've just picked up with the 3 month free FSD. They could say to the buyer... "look it has FSD" because the car does at that time even though all the paperwork they have says they've not bought it and it will disappear. In that scenario I think we'd agree the seller is in the wrong. Is that too far difference from the dealer selling the car? It's different but not massively
Tesla are bad to take so long to remove stuff and I think they gave in eventually, and when they do take so long it causes confusion, but dealers are still taking a risk to sell stuff they've been told the car doesn't have.
I've seen dealers increasingly saying FUSC, FSD and Premium connectivity are to the best of their knowledge and promise nothing more. It doesn't help buyers and those features can be worth thousands.
Imagine what would happen if someone sold a car they've just picked up with the 3 month free FSD. They could say to the buyer... "look it has FSD" because the car does at that time even though all the paperwork they have says they've not bought it and it will disappear. In that scenario I think we'd agree the seller is in the wrong. Is that too far difference from the dealer selling the car? It's different but not massively
Tesla are bad to take so long to remove stuff and I think they gave in eventually, and when they do take so long it causes confusion, but dealers are still taking a risk to sell stuff they've been told the car doesn't have.
I've seen dealers increasingly saying FUSC, FSD and Premium connectivity are to the best of their knowledge and promise nothing more. It doesn't help buyers and those features can be worth thousands.
If the dealer claims it has FSD/EAP/AP when you buy the car from them, then it is their responsibility to either refund you for the cost or get that feature to you somehow if Tesla removes it after you had bought the car. But if you, the buyer assume it comes with FSD based on some screenshot and don't clarify with the dealer and get it in writing then it is the buyer's fault for not doing due diligence.
Thank god I did the later and was able to cancel the purchase.
Thank god I did the later and was able to cancel the purchase.
OK, let me add my situation. I am currently in the process of buying a 2018 Model 3 from Vroom. There is a screenshot of the FSD in the listing and the car is on the latest software version. The Carfax report shows one owner, no auction, but does say "Dealer took title of this vehicle while it was in inventory."
Does that seem any more (or less) at risk of losing FSD? I am only interested in it if it has the FSD.
Does that seem any more (or less) at risk of losing FSD? I am only interested in it if it has the FSD.
If you cant get it in clear writing from the Vroom, that they are guaranteeing that the car has FSD and that the car will retain FSD as long as you have the car? If you cant get that in writing?
I'd consider the car to NOT have FSD.
Huachipato
Member
As an owner - I've asked for this information and it was NOT provided to me.
The most I got was a tech working on the car at my house saying "I can see the previous owner took good care of it". But he would not let me look at the screen to see anything.
I'd try and find the car on tesla-info or ev-cpo and see if they have a history of it. Dealers buy cheap tesla inventory and try and flip it for a profit. I use Tesla info a lot and the "factory-vin" page will find the car if they have details and give you a link to a detailed page for that car even if sold with price history and last seen spec. If it comes up you'll see if Tesla were selling it with FSD and also how much the dealer paid.
If it doesn't come up then no idea, they do often take FSD away but they've also been known to enable it to help shift stock..
Either way, I'd get the dealer to put it in writing, they should know what they've bought.
If it doesn't come up then no idea, they do often take FSD away but they've also been known to enable it to help shift stock..
Either way, I'd get the dealer to put it in writing, they should know what they've bought.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I just experienced this. Purchased a 2017 MX from vroom. Pics showed EAP included. As a person new to Tesla I was not aware of the history. Car was delivered still had EAP for the almost full 72 hours it took them to add the car to my account and viola. EAP gone. The original sales sticker/tag was in the glove box that had EAP as part of the original configuration. I do think this was a lease vehicle at one point. I can see both sides of this argument. If there is a way to get it back great, but from I’ve been reading in this thread, that’s unlikely. I was pleasantly surprised that it came with premium sound and subzero so...you win some, you lose some.
I'm pretty sure we haven't heard the last of these types of situations yet. It has only become possible in the last few years to be able to change your car's configuration over the air. So it has got to be tried in the courts to figure out just who belongs to these properties. Do they stay with the car associated with the VIN number, or do they stay with the previous owner. Or if they are just an arbitrary thing that Tesla always owns as a subscription and can take it back or Grant it at any time a vehicle changes hands from one owner to the next.
Imagine those that paid $5,000 or more for full self driving on cars that they no longer own because full self driving never came to fruition the entire time they had the vehicle. Many owners have since moved on to another vehicle do they still have full self driving? Did it move with them to their next vehicle? Or did it remain with the VIN number of the vehicle that they sold or traded? This is going to be interesting I've got my popcorn ready.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Welcome to Tesla. Feels great, yeah?
If they can milk you for more money, they will. Ethics be damned.
EAP stays with the car unless Tesla took ownership of it at some point. Did Vroom advertise the car as having EAP?
Totally agree! Tesla (as a company) will do whatever benefits them most at this moment - remove already paid and/or endlessly delay promised/prepaid features, resist fixing multiple quality issues, ignore customer's request fix faulty equipment (aka MCU memory and yellow screen issues), etc., UNTIL after they will be tried in the court and the record will be set straight from now and on.
This is a long-overdue action for whatever reason has not happened yet., since we as owners see Tesla as a wunderkind and let him do whatever he wants.
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