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This Insurance problem could effect many Tesla owners.

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Three60guy, Jul 12, 2016.

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Does the 7th digit of your VIN show the letter E?

Poll closed Aug 2, 2016.
  1. Yes

    43 vote(s)
    82.7%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    17.3%
  1. Three60guy

    Three60guy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Racine, WI
    This thread was created on July 12, 2016. The information contained here is accurate only as of that date.

    Today, I called my insurance company (MetLife) and discussed with them that I thought I had an error in the VIN number which potentially could affect the price I pay for insuring my Tesla vehicle. The VIN number was requested of me when I transferred from my old car. I indicated that my VIN shows I have a 90 kilowatt (KW) battery and not a physical 75 KW battery which is software reduced to 70 KW.

    I shared my concern that a large portion of the value of my vehicle is based on which battery I have installed in it and therefore how much I would pay for insurance. To my amazement, the insurance underwriter I spoke with also did a lookup on the Tesla Web site which showed that a Model S 70D does, in fact, NOT have a 90 KW battery but that I was paying for one which did. She also agreed I was owed a significant rebate on what I should have been charged from the day I took ownership to today, July 12. In addition, she calculated that the difference in annual price of ownership of My Model S 70D based purely on the actual size of my battery would be only 64% of what I was going to be charged upon renewal in December of this year. She agreed that her corporate interface with Tesla needs to be updated with better information and she said she will be providing this information to MetLife Corporate to handle properly.

    Two things:

    1. This potentially affects many people who owns a Tesla product. I recently found a Model X thread which shows the same issue. My MX 75D's VIN resolves to 90D
    2. I believe this is significant information. As a result, I suggest this become a sticky thread so others can benefit from this information.

    Background information:

    Here are the first 7 digits of my VIN: 5YJSA1E

    5YJ decodes to Tesla
    S decodes to Model S
    A decodes to a hatchback vehicle
    1 decodes to it having airbags
    E decodes to having a 90 KW battery

    Here is information on how I decoded my VIN #:
    Decoding Tesla Model S VINs

    It was that letter E - the 7th digit in my VIN which was the issue. A friend of mine who has a Model S 90D also has the letter E as the 7th digit.

    But when I spoke with my underwriter she ignored the VIN and it became clear that Tesla had provided MetLife with incorrect battery size information even OUTSIDE of the VIN number. So, as far as my insurance company was concerned both the secondary information they had as well as the VIN agreed that I had a 90 KW battery in my Model S 70D. My insurance company had "pricing" information for a 70D but Tesla was saying that I had a 90D both from the VIN information as well as the other descriptors Tesla was providing my insurance company about my car. I am going to save $603 annually next year on top of the $245 rebate I have received for this year. Not bad for a single phone call.

    I hope this information helps everyone get the proper pricing for their insurance on their Tesla vehicle as a result of reading this. I also hope your insurance company was as cooperative as mine was too.

    Cheers
     
    • Helpful x 6
    • Informative x 5
  2. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

    Joined:
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    Good catch. Thanks for taking the time to share this. Bet this will save quite a few people a nice amount of money.
     
  3. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    #3 liuping, Jul 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
    My Model S 90D has a V (for "Very High Capacity (90 kWh)")

    According to the VIN Decoder link "For all models, effective 1 August 2015: E = Electric", though my car was manufactured in August 2015, so YMMV.
     
  4. pdxgibby

    pdxgibby Member

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    Tualatin, Oregon
    When I got my insurance for my 70D last November, I had a similar problem. My VIN decoded to the wrong model, I think it was a P85D. They quoted me insurance on the car that it had decoded to, but I stressed that this was a different vehicle, one that cost $25k less, was much slower -> thus the underwriter should understand that the risks / cost of replacement should have been lower. As should my premium. They did some investigation and fixed it and I got a much better rate. Not $600 / year better...but better.
     
  5. Three60guy

    Three60guy Member

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    Location:
    Racine, WI
    Update:

    Letter E actually means the following:

    E = Lithium - Ion Battery - Extended Capacity (90 kWh) P90D Ludicrous

    So, E represents a much more expensive car than I originally thought. Which means that the insurance would be much more expensive as well. No wonder I got a large reduction in price from my Insurance company.
     
  6. wilheldp

    wilheldp Member

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    Jun 24, 2016
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    Louisville, KY
    As liuping stated above, "E" had been generic for "Electric" for every car produced after August 1, 2015. When was your VIN generated? If it was after 8/1/15, then the E is the correct designator for your car, and does not indicate a P90DL.
     
  7. javawolfpack

    javawolfpack Member

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    Jul 5, 2016
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    Location:
    Chico, CA USA
    I know my insurance agent had a quote for a 90D when I originally asked them about insurance before getting a VIN, my rate significantly was dropped once they got the VIN for the 60D that is pending production. And I have the E, but as seemingly as has been mentioned seems this is the case for all vehicles that are made this year... likely your insurance company isn't up to date?
     
  8. CuriousG

    CuriousG Member

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    Elk Grove, CA
    I too had a similar problem but just the opposite effect. Going through USAA's website I chose a 70 model rather than entering in the VIN because it kept thinking it was an 85. In the end, it still needed a VIN # and it was cheaper using the VIN rather than what was showing up when I entered model #. I don't remember the cost savings but it was significant enough that it surprised me.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Three60guy

    Three60guy Member

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    Yes, I see that now. However, after 3 times of being on hold and 1 call back after the underwriter checked and rechecked their information, it was very clear to them that "THEIR" information was still reflecting the older definition of what "E" stood for. As a result, I am no longer paying insurance for Extended Capacity (90 kWh) P90D Ludicrous mode.

    I still believe that people should call their insurance representative, or better yet, the underwriter at the insurance company and verify which definition they are using to decide how much to charge you for insuring your vehicle.
     
    • Like x 2
  10. Model S M.D.

    Model S M.D. Ludicrous Radiologist

    Joined:
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    Houston, TX
    Progressive insurance here. I just chatted with an agent online and got a $53 refund for the past 6 months and $105 off of my 6 month renewal offer I just received.

    Apparently the vehicle listed on my insurance was a P85D (not sure about ludicrous). Got it changed to the 85D.

    (The 7th digit of my VIN is also an "E")
     
    • Informative x 1
  11. cplaw

    cplaw Member

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    Los Angeles
    Does anyone have Geico, and is this an issue with Geico? My VIN has the "E" as well even though it's only a 60.
     
  12. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    Thank you for allowing me to change my vote. I so fear being outside the bell curve!
    --
     
  13. meeb

    meeb Member

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    With GEICO, when I entered the VIN, it said it couldn't match it with a vehicle so they asked you to fill in the manufacturers and model number manually. "An exact match was not found; therefore, no vehicle selection can be made. Verify, correct, or enter a new VIN, or enter the Year, Make, Model and Body Style."

    They had Model S, Model S 60, Model S 85, Model X, Model S 40 kWh, Model S 60 kWh, Model S 85 kWh, Model S Performance, Model S Signature Performance, and Model S Signature.

    I have a 90D, so nothing matched exactly. I compared the "Model S" with the "Model S 85" and "Model S 85 kWh", and "Model S" was cheaper. In the end I went with Model S, and then emailed GEICO to confirm: I said an exact match wasn't found, and wanted to make sure that I made the correct selection. They said they looked up my VIN number and "Model S" was appropriate. It seems like GEICO, just like Tesla, doesn't make a distinction (at least yet) for models as of August 1, 2015 (where they're all "Electric"). From a comprehensive/collision perspective this seems like good news for P90DL owners, maybe not so good for Model S 60 owners - everyone is lumped together. FWIW the Model S is 1/3 cheaper to insure collision on than my Audi whose MSRP is 1/2 the price of the S.
     
  14. Tampaukfan

    Tampaukfan Member

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    Wonder if this applied to 2015's? I sold my 85D and bought a 911 GTS with a MSRP higher than fully loaded P90D, my insurance dropped by $800.
     
  15. Jlwine

    Jlwine Member

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    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Yes, my 7th digit is E, however my insurance company (Cincinnati Insurance) correctly has it as a 60D.
     
  16. tennis

    tennis Member

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    Location:
    New England
    GEICO can't determine battery size (model) by VIN. GEICO also can't pull anything about your car from the VIN like safety features. I just emailed with them to at least say the car has DRL, anti-lock brakes, anti-theft, airbags...
     
  17. wilheldp

    wilheldp Member

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    I don't think there is a way to determine battery size from the VIN any more. The 8th character denotes single motor, dual motor, or performance dual motor. The 7th character which used to denote battery size and model now just has an E for Electric.
     
  18. Three60guy

    Three60guy Member

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    Racine, WI
    My conclusion after reading the feedback above is this:

    There is no way of knowing whether your insurance company has updated their information regarding Tesla. It could very well be older than August of 2015 when they changed their VIN #s to show that the 7th character is always the letter "E". Prior to that the letter "E" described a top of the line Tesla which would increase the rates of those who didn't have the most expensive vehicle Tesla makes.

    The moral of this story is to check with your insurance company and see if you are due a rebate. I sure am glad I did.

    Thanks for everyone providing their feedback.

    Cheers
     
    • Like x 1
  19. SoccerMan94043

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
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    Location:
    San Jose
    I called Amica (my insurance) and they won't distinguish between the two. Who is your insurance provider? It might be time to switch
     
  20. jelloslug

    jelloslug Member

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    Greenville, SC
    I just added my 60D to my State Farm policy and it came back as a P85D. I had the agent manually correct it and it changed the premium by about $10 a month.
     

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