Winter Tires - Michelin X-Ice Xi3 vs. Nokian Hakka R2

[Morristhecat]

Ok, was able to upload my sticker now. Interesting that we all have different variations. @slcuervo, notice that your combined weight capacity is 100lb less than mine. That could be the reason for the lower psi perhpas?

 

[slcuervo]

How strange!Morristhecat, you have an Model S 60, which I think is lighter than the 85, so this could explain why your allowed combined weight is higher, and thus have higher PSI recommended?

Unfortunately, we cannot compare our label to the other one, because the other states total weight of the vehicle, not the allowed combined weight... Anyway, 50kg and 3 PSI difference will not keep me awake at night :tongue: - it's just very curious that there are these little differences out there.

 

[jerry33]

How strange!Morristhecat, you have an Model S 60, which I think is lighter than the 85, so this could explain why your allowed combined weight is higher, and thus have higher PSI recommended?

The GVW would be the same, the difference would be the amount of payload. However, tire pressure recommendations are based on a set of assumptions. Use different assumptions--get a different recommended tire pressure. GVW is based on suspension capacity.

 

[slcuervo]

I have tried the grip after inflating the Nokian Hakka R2s to 48 PSI, and I have decided to make a few videos to show you the results.

I still can't believe the traction control engages so much. I don't find it normal, and I would like you guys to share your thoughts, but more importantly your experience, so we can compare. I might even open a new thread to discuss this particular issue.

Anyway, here are the videos:

Conditions: slightly wet roads (it rained on Monday, it was dry on Tuesday, and misty today - Wednesday - when I recorded the videos), front tires at 46 PSI, rear tires 48 PSI. The Nokian Hakka R2s are new (600 km driven).

I start by maintaining a steady speed, and then suddenly floor the pedal and watch when traction control engages. See for yourselves:

- Video 1, from 43 to 96 km/h: http://youtu.be/fpdK3YfAp_o
- Video 2, from 85 to 124 km/h: http://youtu.be/E-CJipOUtss
- Video 3, from 104 to 147 km/h: http://youtu.be/gkFCJsx4AsU

What amazes me most is that on the third video, at 130km/h, the traction control engages!!

 

[mknox]

I still can't believe the traction control engages so much. I don't find it normal, and I would like you guys to share your thoughts, but more importantly your experience, so we can compare. I might even open a new thread to discuss this particular issue.

I had some wheel spin/traction control action when the tires were brand new on wet pavement, but you say you have 600 km on them. I see nothing like that at all. If I accelerate briskly from a wet intersection, I may get some slip as the drive wheels cross the painted surface where the crosswalk is marked (slips on the shiny paint surface), but my summers will do that too.

I'll be putting my R2's on next week, so will investigate further then.

 

[slcuervo]

If I accelerate briskly from a wet intersection, I may get some slip as the drive wheels cross the painted surface where the crosswalk is marked (slips on the shiny paint surface), but my summers will do that too.

With the R2s on wet roads I can do 0 to 80 with permanent action of the traction control... :scared:


When you describe the situation above, is that with the summer tires?Anyway, let me know what you find out once you have the R2s on!

 

[DGates]

I'm getting my R2s put on this afternoon. Living in Vancouver, where it basically is wet from Nov until April, this has me a bit worried now. I'll do some acceleration testing and let everybody know how they are in the next couple days.

 

[mknox]

I'm getting my R2s put on this afternoon.

If they're new, you do have to get some miles on them first. I think it's true of all tires, but the traction will improve after they break in.

- - - Updated - - -

When you describe the situation above, is that with the summer tires?Anyway, let me know what you find out once you have the R2s on!

Yes, I can spin the tires on painted surfaces (crosswalks etc.) when wet with either my Eagle RSA-2 summers or the Hakka R2 winters.

 

[Mayhemm]

Better late than never?

Please excuse the late replies, gentlemen. I've been away for the last month or two and am just getting back into the forum.

Yes, you need a wheel alignment.

Should I wait until Spring to get the alignment (when my summer wheels are back on) or is the wheel/tire combo irrelevant in this case?

Is it typical in Saskatchewan to install winter tires so "early"? Here in Southern Ontario, I usually wait until mid-November.

No, we usually put our winters on during the back half of October. In this case, I knew I would be traveling for a month or more in unfamiliar climates and didn't want to get caught in a freak snow storm or something in my 21's while thousands of kilometers from home. I wanted to err on the side of caution, despite the potential for accelerated tire wear.

Pics or it didn't... oh, well... you know.

Unfortunately, all of the pics from that period were taken using my phone camera (which does not lend itself well to zooming in). However, you can clearly see my silver TSTs instead of the dark grey 21's I run my summers on.

 

[slcuervo]

Anyone has tried grip under full acceleration with the R2s?

 

[jerry33]

Should I wait until Spring to get the alignment (when my summer wheels are back on) or is the wheel/tire combo irrelevant in this case?

Sooner is better. The only thing that upsets the alignment angles is tires with differing wear. (one tire very worn and other relatively new). The two angles that we're most concerned with (toe and camber) aren't affected that much by tire wear. Caster and SAI (aka KPI) should generally be done with new tires. TOOT is tire neutral.
Because your winter tires are likely new and without uneven wear, you're best off to get the alignment done with them.

 

[iKhalid]

Did the Nokian behaviour disappear after sometime? Mine are still new and they cause the traction control light to appear every time I accelerate.

 

[Evbwcaer]

I live in Minneapolis and we just had our first snowfall and then the snow froze to the road....hard ice. I got the Michelins and I can report that I am very happy with my RWD Model S on snow and ice in combination with the Michelins. I was apprehensive to buy the MS for the one reason of RWD winter traction and it is no longer a concern. The car does great. You have to really try to get the back end to come around. I played with the traction control and can report it makes a large difference and it functions silently....all you will notice is that you have great control.

I do not have enough mileage and use on the tires to say how they wear, or work in -0f weather, etc. Pleased to this point for sure.

Michelin has a $70 rebate program going right now as well FYI.

AWD with snow tires and air suspension will make the car unstoppable.

 

[slcuervo]

Did the Nokian behaviour disappear after sometime? Mine are still new and they cause the traction control light to appear every time I accelerate.

Mine have now almost 2.000 km and it is still the same. On dry roads the grip is OK (although nowhere close to the grip of the Good Year Eagles) if you accelerate fully in a straight line, but on wet roads it is quite poor. Did you see the videos I uploaded? Amazing that traction control engages at 130 km/h!!

The guys at the tire shop told me that both the Hakka R2 and Michelin X ice Xi3 behave the same way. If we want better grip on wet roads, we should be getting the Pirelli Sottozero. But if we are going to drive on snow/slush or ice... then we made a good choice. That is the summary I can come up with

 

[Cottonwood]

A heads up: Apparently all the new Tesla's out there, and maybe this thread, are driving up the demand for the Hakka R2 in the 245/45R19 size. I could not find them locally in Colorado. I called TiresByWeb, they told me that national stock had been sold out, but a new shipment just arrived from Finland in that size and they currently do have some. My four R2's for my new P85D are on the way. :biggrin:

 

[efusco]

My Xi3s are at the tire shop, haven't decided when to have them mounted...maybe at the end of the month...a bit worried since we have flurries forecast for this weekend, but I don't want undue wear on them if it's not significant snow because I'd like to get at least 4 winters' use out of them.

 

[eclipsis]

R2s have been out-of-stock, so just got a set of Xi3s. Hopefully they work out well.

 

[theheff]

R2s have been out-of-stock, so just got a set of Xi3s. Hopefully they work out well.

I ended up doing the same. Very pleased with the Xi3 so far.

A heads up: Apparently all the new Tesla's out there, and maybe this thread, are driving up the demand for the Hakka R2 in the 245/45R19 size. I could not find them locally in Colorado. I called TiresByWeb, they told me that national stock had been sold out, but a new shipment just arrived from Finland in that size and they currently do have some. My four R2's for my new P85D are on the way. :biggrin:

I had the same problem in Denver. The Tire Rack distribution Center in Stapleton has the Xi3 in stock for same day pickup.

 

[Cottonwood]

I had the same problem in Denver. The Tire Rack distribution Center in Stapleton has the Xi3 in stock for same day pickup.

As I said, the Nokian Hakka R2's in the 245/45R19 size for the MS are in stock now at TiresByWeb.com since they just got a fresh shipment from Finland. Who knows how long they will last...

This is my third winter on the Hakka 7's on my P85. They work great, but the sound of studs in a quiet electric car drives me nuts. I am looking forward to trying the Hakka R2's on my P85D when it is delivered in a month or so. :biggrin:

 

[paco3791]

too those of you that have the 19" Xi3's, do you see any change in wh/m with them on v. the stock tires? A lot of variables I know, but just interested in people impressions, (neutral?, dramatically worse?, better?)