Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion

[Bet TSLA]

This whole conversation has made me think more about what I actually use the energy meter for.... Also having that directly in the center of the display, large and in a prominent position, where it should be, means I can see it easily, with my head and eyes still focused straight ahead. Move this off to the side and make it smaller and now I'm going to have to focus harder on that, with my eyes diverted a bit from the center of the road. Someone please explain how that's a good thing, from a safety standpoint.

From my reading of this thread I am surprised at how much people seem to be looking at their instrument cluster instead of the road. From a safety standpoint that seems pretty dubious. I'm sure Tesla has collected lots of data from driving simulators, testing various display configurations. I would not be surprised at all if in the interest of safety they remove lots of information completely (energy graphs come to mind, as well as power/regen state). Not just move it, remove it so that people can't spend their time staring at it instead of having their attention on the road where it belongs. Data geeks and hypermilers won't like that, but it will improve safety for everybody.

I just don't want core functionality removed or displaced from where it is most useful. Things like the power/regen graph, the time,date, and temperature from the status line.

Calling temperature a core functionality for a driving machine is quite a stretch. Putting the current time in that category is even more so. But the date! Seriously? Not having the date instantly available at all times impacts the drivability of the vehicle in some way? You've got to be kidding. That Tesla has the date taking up pixels on the instrument cluster is utterly ridiculous. Getting rid of it is obviously an improvement.

I could see Tesla adding things like date and temperature to the available voice commands, with audio response. For things that are only occasionally useful and relevant that's a better way to access them.

None of us (ok, well, myself at least) are passing judgement. We are offering feedback on the beta version in hopes the final product resolves the identified issues.

Well, no. You are offering feedback on some posted images that some people have claimed have something to do with the new software currently in beta test. You've never used it, and you have no idea if it's accurate. Such feedback is at best worth little. Why would Tesla, which has various people whose opinions they value and trust actually driving with the real beta software, pay the slightest attention? It's just noise.

Sure, people should go ahead and post if it makes them happy. Express your opinions all you like. But expecting anybody, especially at Tesla, to take them seriously is foolish.

 

[wdolson]

I am a bit dyslexic. Because of this I always look for the same rental cars so I do not get confused.

When deciding to get a Tesla making sure I was comfortable with the UI was very important. The Brea store was fantastic giving me a little extra time with a loaner.

I am keeping in mind what we have seen is beta and who knows how it will change. I personally hope it does. I will add my voice to the top line lacking on the 17 screen and the missing range / blue / orange. Range is a concern for me. I hope there is an easy way to find it.

With all of this said I just realized that I am just going to have to hope for the best with any large UI upgrade from Tesla and hope that the changes does not drive my brain matter wonky. If it does I will need to dumb down my very pretty car with some post it notes for a bit.

I'm mildly dyslexic too. One thing I've been learning about dyslexia is we navigate in the world by patterns and symbols more than using language. It drives me nuts when companies change the UI just for the heck of it. If there is a valid reason to change the UI, I'll hunker down and learn the new UI, but change for the sake of change pushes a lot of extra work onto my brain for no benefit.

I have a friend who is severely dyslexic, but is so brilliant she taught herself how to compensate around 70%. When she was first diagnosed in her 30s, the doctor was sure she had been through some program because he'd never seen anyone with it as bad as she has self compensate that well without some kind of outside help. One day she was over here with another friend who is an Apple developer who was cavalierly upgrading her Mac and iPhone and moving things around the way he thought was most convenient. She just about had a meltdown. Weeks later she said she was still trying to figure out where everything was moved. He just couldn't wrap his brain around why she was having such a problem with his changes and thought she was just being hyper-reactive for no reason.

I'm a software developer myself but I've never been in a position where the powers that be wanted me to completely change the UI on a program without good reason, so I've never been in the middle of those kinds of discussions. I wish more software companies were aware of how much work dyslexics need to go through whenever the UI changes.

 

[andrewket]

It occurs to me that this side discussion of dyslexia is an opportunity for tesla. Does any other manufacturer offer accessibility features?

 

[wdolson]

It occurs to me that this side discussion of dyslexia is an opportunity for tesla. Does any other manufacturer offer accessibility features?

Not for dyslexia. Computer companies don't get it either, despite supporting many other disabilities.

 

[deonb]

And if it never is? At some point Tesla won't support the car if you refuse updates for years and the issue you have is fixed in newer software.

If this is the real UI and Tesla sticks with that, I'll sell the car and get a BMW instead. (I can probably sell it at a premium if I never update to 7.0).

Sure, with a BMW it doesn't become better over time... but it also doesn't become worse over time.

 

[OddB]

Calling temperature a core functionality for a driving machine is quite a stretch. Putting the current time in that category is even more so.

In my world knowing if the temperature is above or below freezing is quite important.

To be able to keep track of the time in a easy way is also nice. (Will I get there in time...?)

 

[Zythryn]

From my reading of this thread I am surprised at how much people seem to be looking at their instrument cluster instead of the road. From a safety standpoint that seems pretty dubious. I'm sure Tesla has collected lots of data from driving simulators, testing various display configurations. I would not be surprised at all if in the interest of safety they remove lots of information completely (energy graphs come to mind, as well as power/regen state). Not just move it, remove it so that people can't spend their time staring at it instead of having their attention on the road where it belongs. Data geeks and hypermilers won't like that, but it will improve safety for everybody.



Calling temperature a core functionality for a driving machine is quite a stretch. Putting the current time in that category is even more so. But the date! Seriously? Not having the date instantly available at all times impacts the drivability of the vehicle in some way? You've got to be kidding. That Tesla has the date taking up pixels on the instrument cluster is utterly ridiculous. Getting rid of it is obviously an improvement.

I could see Tesla adding things like date and temperature to the available voice commands, with audio response. For things that are only occasionally useful and relevant that's a better way to access them.



Well, no. You are offering feedback on some posted images that some people have claimed have something to do with the new software currently in beta test. You've never used it, and you have no idea if it's accurate. Such feedback is at best worth little. Why would Tesla, which has various people whose opinions they value and trust actually driving with the real beta software, pay the slightest attention? It's just noise.

Sure, people should go ahead and post if it makes them happy. Express your opinions all you like. But expecting anybody, especially at Tesla, to take them seriously is foolish.

+1000, very well said!

- - - Updated - - -

...
but that then begs the question of why the leaks? Either they're intentionally leaking the version to some people to gauge feedback before general release, or they're being really sloppy with the beta testing in that they've sent the update inadvertently to a lot of people. Neither instills confidence.

We have seen these in the past to.
Tesla uses internal beta testing, and then a group of external (customer) beta testers.
No body knows how large a group this is.
It has been speculated that the customer beta testers sign an NDA.

In the current digital age, it would be extremely difficult to prevent all leaks.
I'm sure Tesla removes people from the beta testing if they do leak data.
I'm sure Tesla would also hope that people who have not experienced the final software leave their torches and pitchforks in the closet until they experience the actual product.

If your concerns are not unique, beta testers may just be giving Tesla similar feedback.

I strongly suspect that whoever posted the leaks is no longer a beta tester.

 

[donauker]

Just remember that a service visit can result in a firmware upgrade that you were not expecting...

With my S going in for service I have notified the service center in writing that I do not want any 7.0 version of software installed and they have responded and noted my concern.

My Signature has absolutely no need of a stupid little car taking up a good portion of the IC and the last thing I want on my IC on a dark night when driving on winding unlit and unmarked roads is a bright white patch of headlight glare from this useless little car!

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Do you think that actually will do anything?

I can't imagine that a) there is such a list, and b) if such a list exists, that you could get on it by calling any old service center. Old pal of Elon, maybe, but random service center customer? Not a chance.

I can guess which list they put you on, and I don't think it was the one you were asking for...

My 85D is at the Houston Westchase service center right now getting repaired because I hit a curb. When these images were released, I dropped by there, spoke to the head of service, and told him I didn't want my firmware updated to version 7 should it be released before my car is ready. I did this because the service centers normally will always update you to the latest version as a courtesy whenever the car is in for repair.

He made a note of that, and then came back and told me that he had spoken to someone in California, and placed my VIN on a list to not be updated. I took him at his word.

The notion that I've somehow ended up on a "problem customer" list because of this request is ridiculous. You've been reading too many conspiracy theories.

- - - Updated - - -

If this is the real UI and Tesla sticks with that, I'll sell the car and get a BMW instead. (I can probably sell it at a premium if I never update to 7.0).

Sure, with a BMW it doesn't become better over time... but it also doesn't become worse over time.

Sad, but I can understand and sympathize. I hope that Tesla realizes the serious shortcomings of this interface and addresses them, making this course of action unnecessary. Hopefully that is done before general release.

 

[Soolim]

Could it be possible that what we are seeing is only an alpha version of UI? I observed (could be wrong) that most of the leaks came from non AP cars, and may be Tesla is checking if the AP style UI might be acceptable to non-AP cars, so as to have a unified version UI? Hence the leak is quite intentional? It is fun to speculate:smile:

 

[Krugerrand]

None of us (ok, well, myself at least) are passing judgement.

You have an odd definition of judgment.

 

[Max*]

I don't get it...

People like this one:

But people don't like this one:

You guys do realize that the car in the middle which everyone is complaining about is nearly the same, with nearly the same headlights (one looks like a pro rendering, and the other a cell phone shot)? The final layout may not be done, there are no lane marking, the headlights don't blend with the road, etc.

 

[Cyclone]

Max*, I am fine with either when AP is in control. There is nothing in the second image to indicate that AP is active, so I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly so) that this is when the driver is in primary control. As such, I have a problem with both in that scenario. But at least the first pic doesn't indicate it could be the view when AP isn't in primary control.

Additionally, the one on the bottom provides no indication that the doors are locked. It's already been said in a couple threads that people worry about random strangers trying to open their doors when the car stops or you are first getting in (all 4 doors unlock instead of just driver door). This will probably add to their fears if this is the way 7.0 looks when released.

 

[FlasherZ]

None of us (ok, well, myself at least) are passing judgement. We are offering feedback on the beta version in hopes the final product resolves the identified issues. If we don't say anything, Tesla will assume it's all hunky dory and release as is.

I suspect (and expect) those who participate in the beta testing will provide their feedback as well. I also suspect that this may not be something Tesla can fix right away along their projected release schedule, and it might take a subsequent release to make adjustments.

Besides, this is a forum. You cannot expect us all to just pass over leaked images and not say a word can you? :tongue:

Hence "I know it's pointless to suggest this..."

 

[Max*]

Max*, I am fine with either when AP is in control. There is nothing in the second image to indicate that AP is active, so I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly so) that this is when the driver is in primary control. As such, I have a problem with both in that scenario. But at least the first pic doesn't indicate it could be the view when AP isn't in primary control.

Additionally, the one on the bottom provides no indication that the doors are locked. It's already been said in a couple threads that people worry about random strangers trying to open their doors when the car stops or you are first getting in (all 4 doors unlock instead of just driver door). This will probably add to their fears if this is the way 7.0 looks when released.

One screenshot had an old fashioned speedometer there, maybe they'll do that for non-AP cars? Or maybe the center display may be customizable (just like the side displays)



Not directed at you: Lots of people are freaking out over the headlights, but no one complained 8 months ago when pretty much the same picture was shown on TM.com... I understand, this is TMC, there has to be a reason to panic, but come on.

 

[JST]

I don't get it...

People like this one:

But people don't like this one:

You guys do realize that the car in the middle which everyone is complaining about is nearly the same, with nearly the same headlights (one looks like a pro rendering, and the other a cell phone shot)? The final layout may not be done, there are no lane marking, the headlights don't blend with the road, etc.

To be fair, I don't like either one. The toy car is goofy. As I've said above, I don't really see the point in having a car like that even for autopilot use, but including it for non-AP cars is just inane.

Having said all of that, the change (if its a real change) to the panel on the right seem aimed at bringing back the power meter. That's good, but a) it's not as usefully located or gradated as it is currently, and b) it appears that in adding the power meter, they've taken away some of the detail from the consumption chart, which is very unfortunate.

And no clock/temp in either display, which is sad.

 

[Zythryn]

...
I hope that Tesla realizes the serious shortcomings of this interface and addresses them, making this course of action unnecessary. Hopefully that is done before general release.

I think Tesla knows a lot more about this than you do.
Why people are taking unofficial images that have been leaked, with unknown capabilities and layout is beyond me.
I'm amazed people that are so quick to leaping to conclusions are early adopters of new technology.

 

[FlasherZ]

I can't imagine that a) there is such a list, and b) if such a list exists, that you could get on it by calling any old service center. Old pal of Elon, maybe, but random service center customer? Not a chance.

From the 5.8 days, we learned the service center is REQUIRED by policy to update the car's software to the latest production version (whether you're on a list or not) when you visit, and that's true of all manufacturers/dealers today. People told us they refused to take their car in for service because of the temporary loss of suspension lowering in newer versions - and that they were told that their car would be upgraded if it came in for service. We're going to see the same here again.

I also suspect that at some point Tesla may have its hand forced to update these cars remotely regardless of user preference. Tesla has done well with security, but if there is a disclosure of a vulnerability, or they modify their back-end infrastructure enough such that it requires a software update to use it, then they may be forced to upgrade.

 

[bonnie]

I'm amazed people that are so quick to leaping to conclusions are early adopters of new technology.

Well there you nailed it. We left the early adopter phase a while ago, around the time where we started seeing, "When I spend this much money on a car, I expect [fill in favorite rant here]."

No one is in the wrong. Everyone has a right to want what they want. But the self-declared 'I'm an early adopter' label is way overused.

 

[Soolim]

IMO, for non-AP cars both UI are not meaningful. The center display just reminds them of the missing features (desirable or not), and is considered a waste of display space where the original speedometer/power serve very well.

For AP cars, the top display is an old screen capture (someone said it is old - 2014 vintage) that demonstrates the functionality of the center display for autopilot. The bottom display is lacking in lane marking (I imagine, the lane marking might correlate to Google map if the car is on the road. However, the headlight brightness is overpowering. I have no problem with the power meter with regen on the energy graphical display, and I assume that orange arc will be for power consumed and green arc for regen, same as the original display. But I still would like to have an analog speedometer. The obstruction display on the left is far too big for my taste. Having a digital clock and outside air temperature at the bottom would be nice. But most of all, give us a tire pressure reading as part of the service display, selectable by one of the scroll wheel.