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Wiki FSD’s Earliest Adopters Still Waiting
- Thread starter Lowchrg
- Start date
KArnold
Active Member
True. Sometimes I think they throw darts at a board with software rollout strategies. The "Let's give it to unpaid users but not paid" and "only 2023/2024 cars" in this rollout. Hard to make ant sense in the strategy de jour.
Landscape S/X with USS are newly added with 2024.3.10 / 12.3.3 whereas 2023.3.6 / 12.3.2.1 seemed to only include USS-less S/X. This now at least matches the original 2023.44.30.25 / 12.3 rollout vehicle hardware configurations, but it still excludes portrait S/X.
People have speculated the delay could be due to lack of interior camera, but I wonder if it could be as "simple" as supporting other hardware differences like the dedicated Autopilot stalk? 12.x has newly required single press of the right scroll wheel or single pull of the drive stalk as it currently can't fall back to plain TACC.
I suppose at least the trend so far of these 2024.3.x releases with 12.3.x is more support for older vehicles, so hopefully we'll see some action for earliest adopters soon. Maybe with the change from "FSD (Beta)" to "FSD (Supervised)," potentially even more MCU1 vehicles can join in if Tesla believes the quality has improved enough to change labels?
People have speculated the delay could be due to lack of interior camera, but I wonder if it could be as "simple" as supporting other hardware differences like the dedicated Autopilot stalk? 12.x has newly required single press of the right scroll wheel or single pull of the drive stalk as it currently can't fall back to plain TACC.
I suppose at least the trend so far of these 2024.3.x releases with 12.3.x is more support for older vehicles, so hopefully we'll see some action for earliest adopters soon. Maybe with the change from "FSD (Beta)" to "FSD (Supervised)," potentially even more MCU1 vehicles can join in if Tesla believes the quality has improved enough to change labels?
Best guess as their announcement of FSD for all this month was focused on New sales and owners they likely focused the roll out to start there. I would assume they will continue the roll out over the next month to other era cars.
Tesla says that they are working on validating a V12 version for legacy S&X:
They are even working on it today, which is a holiday.
They are even working on it today, which is a holiday.
Yeah, it's a vaguely technical term.
Back in Ye Olden Days, the world was roughly divided into two parts: hardware with a CPU that had, attached to it, ROM (Read Only Memory) that was programmed once and Never Again.
Think of this in terms of an original IBM PC with the BIOS (Basic input-output system) ROM soldered onto the mother board.
On that same PC, in order to boot it (we're talking before hard drives were really available), one would stick a floppy disk into a floppy disk drive.
When the PC was first turned on, in hardware, the CPU would get reset and then, naturally, would start executing code out of that ROM. The ROM would initialize the CPU, a number of peripherals, including the graphics hardware and, once everything was in a more-or-less sane state, would, using the floppy disk controller hardware, load the first sector or three of the floppy disk into RAM (Random Access Memory). The CPU's program register would then be pointed at the stuff in RAM and the PC would boot up, loading more sectors from the floppy, in what has been called a boot-up (as in, lifting oneself up from one's own bootstraps) process, eventually with the computer running DOS.
Weirdly enough, after all these years, this is pretty much still how computers get started from a cold (i.e., no power) boot.
The stuff on the floppy was deemed "Software". The stuff in the ROM was deemed "Firmware". "Hardware" was actual, no-kidding devices with registers.
Nowadays things tend to get blurred. Hardly anybody uses ROM any more, although it's still available: For non-volatile storage that's ROM-like most computers use "flash RAM", a variant of ROM that can be reprogrammed at slower (cheap) or faster (expensive) rates.
So, when you go to the manufacturer of your PC and get a "BIOS update", the program, either built into the computer's FLASH or elsewhere gets updated, something that back in ye olden days could not actually happen. But people still call that BIOS stuff "Firmware".
And that large, Sold State Drive (SSD) that your modern PC/laptop stores all its programs upon? Yeah, it's still FLASH, just like the BIOS on your PC, but it's a heck of a lot faster than the BIOS flash. And people tend to call what's on that SSD, "Software", just like Ye Olde Floppy Disks of Yore.
So, what's what on a Tesla? Well... If one disconnects all the batteries on a Tesla so there's No Power At All, no question, when the batteries are reconnected the car will definitely boot up. So that sounds kinda firmware-like. But the same FLASH RAM on the computers in the car do nifty things like.. for example.. storing dashcam or sentry videos, and that sounds more like a fast moving hard drive. And, when the car gets an update over the air, well, Good Question.
And there's more than one computer in the car; there's probably a dozen, besides the FSD computer and the media computer that runs the screen. There's ones that run the battery management system, probably ones that run the brakes, others that likely run the motors, and so on. As a rule, all of them are upgradeable and can have their programs changed. Except there's at least one computer, the one that runs the protocol for the NACS charging port, that has to be swapped out in order to upgrade it, which sure sounds like firmware to me.
As I said: The differences tend to be fuzzy. Sometimes people use FW for what gets downloaded from Tesla; sometimes Software.
Fun.
Thanks for this. It’s good to (finally) see someone at Tesla providing some transparency and clear comms to us 3-percenters.
Wol747
Active Member
And for the RHD cars? Are there separate teams dealing with the dozens of different countries' road laws, quite apart from the driving seat position?
Um. There’s been plenty of rumors over the years that Tesla’s been doing some, I guess, basic FSD development in other countries outside of North America. (Not sure about Mexico.)
But regulators, notably those in the EU, have banned Tesla’s tech. Although there are other rumors that home-grown manufacturers are getting a bit of a pass.
Wol747
Active Member
Here in Australia my MS is at 2024.4.8.7 so obviously there must be some unit working at least on RHD with the NSW Australian road rules.
Given that so-called "FSD" is unlikely to be autonomous, only level 3 or thereabouts - ie. a "driver aid" - I can't see how Tesla can shy away from delivering the beta here as just that. It's on the same legal level as cruise control in many aspects. And we've paid for it!
Um. Two things, in reverse order:
- Around here, it's not uncommon to buy a house before it's built. One gets a discount for doing that. Sometimes, a pretty hefty discount. There's risk involved: The builder could go bust, a sinkhole could open up, etc. My understanding with FSD is that it's like that; cheap back in the day (heck, I paid around $4k for it), more as it comes to full fruition. 12.x is closer, but not there yet; when it's there, it'll be worth more.
- I'm not sure: Does AU have any type of FSD (the brand name, not the words) running around the landscape? Did you guys get 11.4.9 in it's full city-streets driving glory, or something that looks more like EAP, that won't do turns on city streets and roundabouts? My understanding is that those places where the full city streets regalia isn't present, isn't because Tesla felt that a different market was a better place to do it all, but was rather because regulators wouldn't let the thing run around until it was as good as, or better than, a human. By their standards, which shift a lot. IF that's true, then residents of those countries have not much other than their political levers to hang onto in order to get things changed.
plumazul
Member
And you believe him?? At this point I believe NOTHING Tesla says, …. Only what they DO
Wol747
Active Member
I have no idea what the various versions do or what capability they have - the update numbering system is opaque. Mostly the rel notes just say "Minor bug fixes" or something about video games. Having spent a lifetime in aviation it's disturbing to have such a complex system in the wild but with the only information coming from YouTubers in a different country with completely different systems even when the dot this dot that are similar!
I'm not sure it makes a difference in my life, but TIL that ROM isn't in my phone, it would be flash RAM. I've managed to remap software 'program' to be 'app' (and find myself calling programs on my computer apps if they are simple, but my accounting program is still a program.)
It is fascinating how things have changed since I first started with the Apple II (and putting a floppy disk in the drive to boot up the computer!) Actually, I also worked with older computers with 8" floppies but that came after my Apple II introduction to microcomputers.
Thanks for taking the time to write all that out.
Why not believe him? He really didn't need to say anything. If we are really less than 3% they would have nothing to lose by screwing us. They know we'll eventually cave and buy another Tesla anyway because there really is no competition to their product.
Wol747
Active Member
My car will probably last me out but if not I will buy an EV but not a Tesla which has no stalks etc. I don't live in the States so have to indicate during opposite turns frequently and being right-handed find the touchscreen very difficult.
dbldwn02
Active Member
Hmmm...Ioniq5 just had its best March sales ever (no tax rebates)...Tesla just had it's first decrease in recent memory (still eligible for tax rebates)
Personally this is my first and last Tesla. Absolutely love this car, but hate most of the "refresh" stuff. I'm driving this 2017 (MCU1) till the wheels fall off. But the competition is coming and I'm ready for it.
Damn...Is that 3% "legacy" just vertical screen folks? I would have thought the number would have been a lot higher than that. I know MCU1 FSD folks are less than 1%...We are the true LEGACY FSD!
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