FSD Beta 10.69

[kabin]

It happens. Last night FSD almost took out a motorcycle in a roundabout. The bike was in the roundabout's outside circling lane. FSD was not adequately slowing, timing the merge and had perfect impact path. Too close for comfort.

I have to agree with an earlier assessment. FSD driver assist does better when there's less traffic to worry about.

 

[JB47394]

Complacency kills. As long as the developers of the system warn that it can do "the wrong thing at the worst time", the behavior and attitude you described is extremely irresponsible. Don't become a statistic irrational regulators could use to shut down the biggest potential improvement in road safety since seat belts.

Oh stop. I'm a responsible adult. I was in the driver's seat with my hands an inch or two from the wheel and I was paying close attention at all times. No music was playing. No passengers were present to distract me. I don't drink alcohol. And so on. The point I was trying to make is that having my hands in contact with the steering wheel is part of the reason that monitoring FSD is so painful. It is physically stressful and every twitch of the steering wheel makes my brain go zoink because I overreact to the movement out of caution and concern. That's a distraction from what I should be doing, which is focusing on traffic and the movement of my vehicle.

 

[kabin]

Oh stop. I'm a responsible adult. I was in the driver's seat with my hands an inch or two from the wheel and I was paying close attention at all times. No music was playing. No passengers were present to distract me. I don't drink alcohol. And so on. The point I was trying to make is that having my hands in contact with the steering wheel is part of the reason that monitoring FSD is so painful. It is physically stressful and every twitch of the steering wheel makes my brain go zoink because I overreact to the movement out of caution and concern. That's a distraction from what I should be doing, which is focusing on traffic and the movement of my vehicle.

That's a good point. It took some time before I started to better tolerate when FSD acted out. Jerky steering and braking may be the worst. Some of my family members would never have that patience and even ask me to turn it off when they are passengers.

But even then, I don't like how easily FSD upsets other drivers sharing the roadway. At some point we will be on the receiving end of this when we see fellow FSDers on the road.

The first case of two FSD vehicles crashing into one another might be a media field day. It may not be that far fetched either if both vehicles are running the same software version that struggles in the same section of roadway.

 

[Iain]

That's a good point. It took some time before I started to better tolerate when FSD acted out. Jerky steering and braking may be the worst. Some of my family members would never have that patience and even ask me to turn it off when they are passengers.

But even then, I don't like how easily FSD upsets other drivers sharing the roadway. At some point we will be on the receiving end of this when we see fellow FSDers on the road.

The first case of two FSD vehicles crashing into one another might be a media field day. It may not be that far fetched either if both vehicles are running the same software version that struggles in the same section of roadway.

I must be behind FSD ( competitors) every day. My point is the world is full of extremely crappy drivers.

 

[KLam]

I just don't understand why people want to take their hands off the steering wheel. FSD beta is a driving assist like cruise control and lane keeping. You don't take your hands off the steering wheel on those driving assists and have no problem of putting your hands on it and paying attention while driving. So why just hearing FSD beta, we suddenly want to take our hands off the steering wheel and whine about how difficult it is to keeping the hands on the steering wheel.

 

[EVNow]

The point I was trying to make is that having my hands in contact with the steering wheel is part of the reason that monitoring FSD is so painful.

That is absolute BS.

If you don't have your hands on the wheel, you lose precious time when you need to intervene.

 

[Dewg]

Here is an excellent video of satisfying the nag while having your hands off the wheel - I personally don't condone having your hands off the wheel, and I keep my hands on the wheel at all times. But this video shows just how EASY it is to satisfy the nag while paying attention. Literally 1 finger. How hard is that?

 

[wjsx9999]

FWIW, I got two strikes last night while using NoA on freeway, and have no clue as to why. No prior warnings at all, just sudden alarm with red hands-on-wheel symbol and message that system was shut off for remainder of trip. Had hands on wheel, paying close attention to driving, no blue banners, no messages on lower screen. Had to stop, PARK, and reset. Never had an issue for 3 years until now. It was first drive with FSD 10.69.3.1

 

[Supcom]

FWIW, I got two strikes last night while using NoA on freeway, and have no clue as to why. No prior warnings at all, just sudden alarm with red hands-on-wheel symbol and message that system was shut off for remainder of trip. Had hands on wheel, paying close attention to driving, no blue banners, no messages on lower screen. Had to stop, PARK, and reset. Never had an issue for 3 years until now. It was first drive with FSD 10.69.3.1

I had a false strike last year. My car kept telling me to pay attention even though my eyes were looking straight ahead the whole time. After I got the strike I realized that I had my windshield visor pulled part way down to where it was point toward me, as opposed to point toward the windshield. I suspect that somehow the visor, or its shadow confused the eye tracker and it gave me a strike. I did get a few warnings and each time I disengaged FSDb then reengaged. Nonetheless, the system finally struck me.

Since then, when I use the visor, I always point it toward the windshield to keep it away from the camera. I've not had a false 'pay attention' warning since. Prior to this, I would occasionally get false warnings when driving toward the sun, especially when it was low. But never after minding the visor position.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Has anyone been able to use the software update? Meaning every since I got my Tesla, I could go to the software screen while connected to wifi or using premium connectivity and it would take a second or 2 and say just checked for update and my car was up to date as of the time I pulled the screen up.
Now after 10.69.3.1.0.420.000.69 or whatever version we are on, it is stuck on 2 days ago. Can anyone keep searching for a update over and over like we used to be able to do?

 

[wjsx9999]

I had a false strike last year. My car kept telling me to pay attention even though my eyes were looking straight ahead the whole time. After I got the strike I realized that I had my windshield visor pulled part way down to where it was point toward me, as opposed to point toward the windshield. I suspect that somehow the visor, or its shadow confused the eye tracker and it gave me a strike. I did get a few warnings and each time I disengaged FSDb then reengaged. Nonetheless, the system finally struck me.

Since then, when I use the visor, I always point it toward the windshield to keep it away from the camera. I've not had a false 'pay attention' warning since. Prior to this, I would occasionally get false warnings when driving toward the sun, especially when it was low. But never after minding the visor position.

Thanks for the tip. In my case, the visor was stowed in the up position. I could have done something wrong, but would just like to know what. That's the most frustrating part because I can't remedy any bad behavior..........if there was any.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I had a false strike last year. My car kept telling me to pay attention even though my eyes were looking straight ahead the whole time. After I got the strike I realized that I had my windshield visor pulled part way down to where it was point toward me, as opposed to point toward the windshield. I suspect that somehow the visor, or its shadow confused the eye tracker and it gave me a strike. I did get a few warnings and each time I disengaged FSDb then reengaged. Nonetheless, the system finally struck me.

Since then, when I use the visor, I always point it toward the windshield to keep it away from the camera. I've not had a false 'pay attention' warning since. Prior to this, I would occasionally get false warnings when driving toward the sun, especially when it was low. But never after minding the visor position.

Alan and I debated this a while ago, and we ended up agreeing to disagree.
I have never had a strike, since the instant the camera sets off the red "pay attention"
even while looking straight ahead, I just move the volume up or down on the yoke, hit next on the yoke for the next song, or adjust the speed on the yoke.
It works for me of the time. I believe Alan said that doesn't work for him.

 

[DanCar]

...
I have to agree with an earlier assessment. FSD driver assist does better when there's less traffic to worry about.

Late breaking news: FSD does better when there is no traffic. lol

 

[FSDtester#1]

Late breaking news: FSD does better when there is no traffic. lol

It works even better if you aren't @AlanSubie4Life !

 

[JB47394]

I just don't understand why people want to take their hands off the steering wheel.

Criminy. Drive for 45 years and ask again. Autonomy is being pursued for the express purpose of taking our hands off the steering wheel. When I engage cruise control, I pull my foot back from the pedal area. And, just like FSD, I pay attention to everything going on around my vehicle. If anything the least concerning is developing, I'm either going to be in my driving pose or I'm just going to go straight to active control of the vehicle.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; if I'm holding the steering wheel and FSD makes it twitch, I'm going to be distracted by it. If my hands are not on the steering wheel, then it is only the coarse movement of the vehicle that will get my attention. For what it's worth, I wouldn't have considered doing any of this with 2.4 because I didn't trust it enough.

That is absolute BS.

If you don't have your hands on the wheel, you lose precious time when you need to intervene.

If I'm aware of my surroundings and know my abilities, then I can decide at what times I should have my hands on the wheel. My physical reaction time pales in comparison to the role that my situational awareness plays in having time to intervene.

Late breaking news: FSD does better when there is no traffic. lol

I know this was a joke, but FSD relies on the presence of other cars to better understand the driving environment. I mentioned this effect about FSD and cresting hills. Other cars tell FSD that the road doesn't just end at the crest. Why it isn't smart enough to use other cues to know this, I have no idea.

 

[Gogoplata]

Hope everyone who newly received FSD beta has a great day. Just received it, and (although not perfect) its pretty darn amazing. So incredible to be part of the future of automated driving! Safe travels everybody!

 

[Dan D.]

...deputy sheriff. ... gave me a breathalyzer to ease the others concerns. I blew a .02, which meant I had less than 1/2 of a beer in my system at the point I showed them fsd beta. .08 is the limit in my state for a dui.

Legally ok.

No criticism to you then, but just a thought. Maybe FSD Beta should be a 0.00 limit system? It's a Beta of a safety-critical system. Yeah, I know crazy idea.

 

[fiveten]

I just don't understand why people want to take their hands off the steering wheel. FSD beta is a driving assist like cruise control and lane keeping. You don't take your hands off the steering wheel on those driving assists and have no problem of putting your hands on it and paying attention while driving. So why just hearing FSD beta, we suddenly want to take our hands off the steering wheel and whine about how difficult it is to keeping the hands on the steering wheel.

Do you take your foot off the accelerator while on cruise control?

 

[2101Guy]

I just don't understand why people want to take their hands off the steering wheel. FSD beta is a driving assist like cruise control and lane keeping. You don't take your hands off the steering wheel on those driving assists and have no problem of putting your hands on it and paying attention while driving. So why just hearing FSD beta, we suddenly want to take our hands off the steering wheel and whine about how difficult it is to keeping the hands on the steering wheel.

Some drivers may be influenced by the official FSD instructional video currently on Teslas website that shows how well FSD functions with no hands at all on the steering wheel for an extended period of time. To add to that FSD has only gotten significantly better since 2016.

Tesla Self-Driving Demonstration | Tesla

www.tesla.com

 

[swedge]

Yes, prior to this occurring, we decided that a request requirement is not wide.

Also it's not a release to the fleet (equivalent to wide).

I think normally people think of wide release as release to everyone who is entitled to it.

But whatever. It's not a wide release to the fleet. I think we can all agree on that.

Also you can't get this (presumably) if you have .40, though I guess I don't know that. And presumably that could change with future releases. Side issue.

Hopefully wide release and the same software to everyone occurs by the end of the year, FSD or not. (However single stack is not necessarily a prerequisite for wide release.)

Sorry to respond so slowly, but Turkey Day gave me some time to ponder. Two thoughts on this release:

First, Wikipedia says there were ~ 1.33 fatalities per 100 million miles driven in USA in 2021. (I did not check where they got that stat.) So, if Tesla wanted statistics which showed significantly lower fatalities (with say 95% confidence) with FSD engaged, how many miles would need to have been recorded? Any stat's gurus on this thread? Is it possible they have reached this "milestone"?

Not to overstate the idea, bu If it is proven safer, might releasing it be a sort of moral imperative?

Second, once Tesla decided to release (city street) FSD beta to anyone who bought it, I see no reason not to include it in the production release. Drivers still would have the option to not use it. Just don't buy it, don't enable those features (in each profile) or don't engage autopilot in town. I assume enabling will still require reading and agreeing to the limitations. Anyway, maybe opting in is now redundant.

Regarding the width of the rollout, I see that about a quarter of TeslaFi users already have FSD b. What fraction of Tesla buyers spring for FSD anyway? It would not surprise me, given the pricing, that most who have bought FSD (in the US) it actually already have beta. (I think all FSD is still "beta", including some highway features like auto lane change and navigate on autopilot, though which features are bundled in which purchase options have changed over time.)

Once they include the in-city features of FSD beta into the standard release, those who were kept out because they updated past the last beta release will finally get in, and us beta "testers" will no longer be denied standard updates.

So, all in all, perhaps this "wide release" is not a very big change.

My own next chore is to get my wife to try FSD in town. Or at least let me use it with her in the car - so far it has been a white knuckle ride for her.

I do wonder how useful it will turn out to be for me in it's current state. Robotaxi might be useful, but this ain't no robotaxi. Yet.

SW