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FSD Beta v11.x

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The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.


Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.


Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving
saneryee-studio.medium.com saneryee-studio.medium.com

screenshot-teslamotorsclub.com-2022.01.26-21_30_17.png


Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…
yuhuang-63908.medium.com yuhuang-63908.medium.com
 
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#8,242
EVNow said:
You are acting like FSD drives "really inconsiderately". It doesn't. It takes may be a second or more to make turns or move out of stops. Most people will not notice it - except for *very inconsiderate* people who normally tailgate, cut others off and do similar extremely impatient things. I'm not going to do anything out of the ordinary to please such people - whether I'm driving manually or with FSD.

When we are sitting behind the wheel - we think every little thing it does badly can be felt by everyone around us. That is simply not the case. If you follow a FSD car that randomly switches from FSD to manual and the other way and you have to guess when they switched, I doubt you can get it right in any statistically significant way.

Just see that CYBRLFT videos. Most people sitting in the back can't even make out when he is using FSD.

ps : It is possible in your area FSD is really bad compared to mine. Thats a different topic. But don't act as if you *know* exactly how every one else should use FSD and if they don't they are being inconsiderate.

pps : In general I'm a very conservative and risk averse driver. Usually drive on the right, slow lane, give max distance to the front car, hardly ever change lanes to go in front of one or two cars. I bet you can't find a more considerate driver if you looked hard ;) So, to imply anyone using FSD is *inconsiderate* is insulting.
Click to expand...
It's also insulting to see drivers allow FSDj to act out for views/clicks like nose picker FSDj apologist cybrlft.

It's intellectually dishonest to argue FSDj is considerate when it does so many things wrong. This list is near endless at this point so I won't try to duplicate it here. And no, thoughtful disengagements won't make FSDj considerate.

As Coach Green once said - FSDj remains what we thought it was.
 
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Reactions: totoro722, jebinc, STUtoday and 1 other person
#8,243
According to conversations on TMC, Teslas:
  • Can't maintain speed correctly
  • Can't make a right turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Can't make a left turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Turns into oncoming lanes
  • Stops at green lights
  • Won't go after a light turns green
  • Stops way before a stop sign and creeps forward
  • Stops in the middle of intersections
  • Waits for others at a 4-way stop, even though it got there first
  • Slams on the brakes for no reason
  • Runs red lights
  • Leaves way too much of a gap to a lead car
  • Jerks the steering wheel back and forth randomly
  • Turn on no-turn-on-red
  • Doesn't slow down for school zones
  • Doesn't stop for school busses
  • Can't stay centered in the lane
  • Drive too close to parked cars
  • Drive over white lane lines
  • Drive over yellow/double-yellow lane lines
  • Drives in the shoulder
  • Can't change lanes properly
  • Doesn't accelerate smoothly
  • Doesn't decelerate smoothly
  • Runs over children and animals
  • Panics around pedestrians, except when running over children and animals
  • Changes lanes for no reason
  • Changes lanes away from a turn
  • Runs through turn lanes instead of turning
  • Doesn't slow down for train tracks
  • Doesn't slow down for speed bumps
  • Doesn't avoid pot holes
  • Smells like wet feet when AC is on
  • Has terrible rattling noises when driving
  • Goes through tires like they're going out of style
  • Bursts into flames randomly
  • Dry wipes the windshield frequently
  • Cleans an already clean windshield
  • Highbeams other drivers constantly
  • Fails to turn on wipers when misting/raining
Did I miss anything?
 
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Reactions: Electroman, heapmaster, totoro722 and 13 others
#8,244
Dewg said:
According to conversations on TMC, Teslas:
  • Can't maintain speed correctly
  • Can't make a right turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Can't make a left turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Turns into oncoming lanes
  • Stops at green lights
  • Won't go after a light turns green
  • Stops way before a stop sign and creeps forward
  • Stops in the middle of intersections
  • Waits for others at a 4-way stop, even though it got there first
  • Slams on the brakes for no reason
  • Runs red lights
  • Leaves way too much of a gap to a lead car
  • Jerks the steering wheel back and forth randomly
  • Turn on no-turn-on-red
  • Doesn't slow down for school zones
  • Doesn't stop for school busses
  • Can't stay centered in the lane
  • Drive too close to parked cars
  • Drive over white lane lines
  • Drive over yellow/double-yellow lane lines
  • Drives in the shoulder
  • Can't change lanes properly
  • Doesn't accelerate smoothly
  • Doesn't decelerate smoothly
  • Runs over children and animals
  • Panics around pedestrians, except when running over children and animals
  • Changes lanes for no reason
  • Changes lanes away from a turn
  • Runs through turn lanes instead of turning
  • Doesn't slow down for train tracks
  • Doesn't slow down for speed bumps
  • Doesn't avoid pot holes
  • Smells like wet feet when AC is on
  • Has terrible rattling noises when driving
  • Goes through tires like they're going out of style
  • Bursts into flames randomly
  • Dry wipes the windshield frequently
  • Cleans an already clean windshield
  • Highbeams other drivers constantly
  • Fails to turn on wipers when misting/raining
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
Hey, Haters gonna hate! 😂
 
Last edited:
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Reactions: jebinc and JHCCAZ
#8,245
Dewg said:
According to conversations on TMC, Teslas:
  • Can't maintain speed correctly
  • Can't make a right turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Can't make a left turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Turns into oncoming lanes
  • Stops at green lights
  • Won't go after a light turns green
  • Stops way before a stop sign and creeps forward
  • Stops in the middle of intersections
  • Waits for others at a 4-way stop, even though it got there first
  • Slams on the brakes for no reason
  • Runs red lights
  • Leaves way too much of a gap to a lead car
  • Jerks the steering wheel back and forth randomly
  • Turn on no-turn-on-red
  • Doesn't slow down for school zones
  • Doesn't stop for school busses
  • Can't stay centered in the lane
  • Drive too close to parked cars
  • Drive over white lane lines
  • Drive over yellow/double-yellow lane lines
  • Drives in the shoulder
  • Can't change lanes properly
  • Doesn't accelerate smoothly
  • Doesn't decelerate smoothly
  • Runs over children and animals
  • Panics around pedestrians, except when running over children and animals
  • Changes lanes for no reason
  • Changes lanes away from a turn
  • Runs through turn lanes instead of turning
  • Doesn't slow down for train tracks
  • Doesn't slow down for speed bumps
  • Doesn't avoid pot holes
  • Smells like wet feet when AC is on
  • Has terrible rattling noises when driving
  • Goes through tires like they're going out of style
  • Bursts into flames randomly
  • Dry wipes the windshield frequently
  • Cleans an already clean windshield
  • Highbeams other drivers constantly
  • Fails to turn on wipers when misting/raining
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
That's a pretty competent list of incompetence that you can expect with FSD. That said, not sure I've had my car burst into flames randomly, but I suppose anything is possible. Will keep an eye out for that.
 
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Reactions: heapmaster, SidetrackedSue, jebinc and 1 other person
#8,247
Dewg said:
According to conversations on TMC, Teslas:
  • Can't maintain speed correctly
  • Can't make a right turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Can't make a left turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Turns into oncoming lanes
  • Stops at green lights
  • Won't go after a light turns green
  • Stops way before a stop sign and creeps forward
  • Stops in the middle of intersections
  • Waits for others at a 4-way stop, even though it got there first
  • Slams on the brakes for no reason
  • Runs red lights
  • Leaves way too much of a gap to a lead car
  • Jerks the steering wheel back and forth randomly
  • Turn on no-turn-on-red
  • Doesn't slow down for school zones
  • Doesn't stop for school busses
  • Can't stay centered in the lane
  • Drive too close to parked cars
  • Drive over white lane lines
  • Drive over yellow/double-yellow lane lines
  • Drives in the shoulder
  • Can't change lanes properly
  • Doesn't accelerate smoothly
  • Doesn't decelerate smoothly
  • Runs over children and animals
  • Panics around pedestrians, except when running over children and animals
  • Changes lanes for no reason
  • Changes lanes away from a turn
  • Runs through turn lanes instead of turning
  • Doesn't slow down for train tracks
  • Doesn't slow down for speed bumps
  • Doesn't avoid pot holes
  • Smells like wet feet when AC is on
  • Has terrible rattling noises when driving
  • Goes through tires like they're going out of style
  • Bursts into flames randomly
  • Dry wipes the windshield frequently
  • Cleans an already clean windshield
  • Highbeams other drivers constantly
  • Fails to turn on wipers when misting/raining
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
Does not break check when someone is tailgating.
 
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#8,249
I don’t know if this is a 11.4.2 regression or totally separate but I was driving using plain TACC this afternoon and it was constantly slowing down for no apparent reason, driving 5+ MPH under the speed limit, slow to accelerate then slowing again. I had to keep my foot on the accelerator most of the time and it was so bad I eventually turned it off.

I don't use TACC very often anymore but the speed regulation was definitely worse than FSD.
 
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Reactions: LSDTester#1 and SSDTester#1
#8,250
Dewg said:
According to conversations on TMC, Teslas:
  • Can't maintain speed correctly
  • Can't make a right turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Can't make a left turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Turns into oncoming lanes
  • Stops at green lights
  • Won't go after a light turns green
  • Stops way before a stop sign and creeps forward
  • Stops in the middle of intersections
  • Waits for others at a 4-way stop, even though it got there first
  • Slams on the brakes for no reason
  • Runs red lights
  • Leaves way too much of a gap to a lead car
  • Jerks the steering wheel back and forth randomly
  • Turn on no-turn-on-red
  • Doesn't slow down for school zones
  • Doesn't stop for school busses
  • Can't stay centered in the lane
  • Drive too close to parked cars
  • Drive over white lane lines
  • Drive over yellow/double-yellow lane lines
  • Drives in the shoulder
  • Can't change lanes properly
  • Doesn't accelerate smoothly
  • Doesn't decelerate smoothly
  • Runs over children and animals
  • Panics around pedestrians, except when running over children and animals
  • Changes lanes for no reason
  • Changes lanes away from a turn
  • Runs through turn lanes instead of turning
  • Doesn't slow down for train tracks
  • Doesn't slow down for speed bumps
  • Doesn't avoid pot holes
  • Smells like wet feet when AC is on
  • Has terrible rattling noises when driving
  • Goes through tires like they're going out of style
  • Bursts into flames randomly
  • Dry wipes the windshield frequently
  • Cleans an already clean windshield
  • Highbeams other drivers constantly
  • Fails to turn on wipers when misting/raining
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
in all fairness, many of those attributes apply to the non-teslas cars on the road, too!
 
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#8,251
Dewg said:
According to conversations on TMC, Teslas:
  • Can't maintain speed correctly
  • Can't make a right turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Can't make a left turn correctly, protected or unprotected
  • Turns into oncoming lanes
  • Stops at green lights
  • Won't go after a light turns green
  • Stops way before a stop sign and creeps forward
  • Stops in the middle of intersections
  • Waits for others at a 4-way stop, even though it got there first
  • Slams on the brakes for no reason
  • Runs red lights
  • Leaves way too much of a gap to a lead car
  • Jerks the steering wheel back and forth randomly
  • Turn on no-turn-on-red
  • Doesn't slow down for school zones
  • Doesn't stop for school busses
  • Can't stay centered in the lane
  • Drive too close to parked cars
  • Drive over white lane lines
  • Drive over yellow/double-yellow lane lines
  • Drives in the shoulder
  • Can't change lanes properly
  • Doesn't accelerate smoothly
  • Doesn't decelerate smoothly
  • Runs over children and animals
  • Panics around pedestrians, except when running over children and animals
  • Changes lanes for no reason
  • Changes lanes away from a turn
  • Runs through turn lanes instead of turning
  • Doesn't slow down for train tracks
  • Doesn't slow down for speed bumps
  • Doesn't avoid pot holes
  • Smells like wet feet when AC is on
  • Has terrible rattling noises when driving
  • Goes through tires like they're going out of style
  • Bursts into flames randomly
  • Dry wipes the windshield frequently
  • Cleans an already clean windshield
  • Highbeams other drivers constantly
  • Fails to turn on wipers when misting/raining
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
The thing is, all of those apply or have applied to Teslas in some form but the majority of the complaints are with FSDb, and as some people here seem to forget, the 'b' stands for beta meaning it's software that is known to be incomplete and buggy and is not expected to be perfect. The acceleration is just fine if I do it myself (and honestly is just fine with the latest version of FSDb,) and I've never had it change lanes for no reason nor has it run over any children when I'm driving so I don't know what other people's problem is!

Some of them are simply things that Tesla does not do well - the auto wipers are generally agreed to be bad in Teslas, and phantom braking has clearly been an issue for many people so those are legitimate complaints IMO.

Edit: I've also had plenty of cars that had an A/C that stank - that's an A/C maintenance issue common to many cars.
 
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#8,253
Dewg said:
Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
I think you missed "Millions would die every day" if FSD were on every car.
From Dan O'Dowd, the self-proclaimed guru of perfect, bug free ultra-reliable and unhackable software.
A perfectly reasonable statistical extrapolation from the terrible experience of the current 400,000 FSD cars, no?
 
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#8,254
sleepydoc said:
The thing is, all of those apply or have applied to Teslas in some form but the majority of the complaints are with FSDb, and as some people here seem to forget, the 'b' stands for beta meaning it's software that is known to be incomplete and buggy and is not expected to be perfect. The acceleration is just fine if I do it myself (and honestly is just fine with the latest version of FSDb,) and I've never had it change lanes for no reason nor has it run over any children when I'm driving so I don't know what other people's problem is!

Some of them are simply things that Tesla does not do well - the auto wipers are generally agreed to be bad in Teslas, and phantom braking has clearly been an issue for many people so those are legitimate complaints IMO.

Edit: I've also had plenty of cars that had an A/C that stank - that's an A/C maintenance issue common to many cars.
Click to expand...
I'm on my 4th filter in this refresh. The tech all say it's a bad design. Each filter lasts a couple of months and then you pretty much either have to pre-vent the car or get in, open the windows, turn on the air, wait a couple of mins before closing windows. Great design for a 90k car :D
 
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Reactions: LSDTester#1
#8,256
11.4.2 here on M3LR

I find it to be adequate most of the time with some improvements and regressions compared to 11.3.6. With experience I can anticipate where it will do poorly and simply disengage.

My most recent experience was FSDb driving around debris (blown out truck tire) at 60 mph. I was quite impressed. Not sure how to directly post a video here.
 
#8,257
kabin said:
Here's another case of an unsafe inconsiderate FSDj action. This is the new v11.4.3 rollout.
Click to expand...
Chuck was very clear his drive was not a functional test of v11.4.3. That will come later and may change his opinion yet over all Chuck was happy with the drive. Let's wait and judge v11.4.3 after folks on this forum post their impressions.
 
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#8,259
Here's a series of wacky v11.4.3 lane selections but you'll probably need to slow it down to 0.25x to actually see anything. It appears FSD wants to ride the median related to the volvo on the right hand side and in the process gets a bit close to oncoming traffic and that's just for starters. Yikes!

 
#8,260
powertoold said:
Can you explain how this is FSDb's fault? I agree as a defensive driver, seeing someone behind me tailgating, but I don't see FSDb doing anything "inconsiderate" here.
Click to expand...
Seriously? It broke early, didn't pull fully into the left turn lane (admittedly a short left turn lane), and left the rear hanging out to dry. Even Chuck reports the butt pucker event. Check out the UI to see how close that initial vehicle was. By the graphics it looked like it made contact and that was a potential chain reaction as following vehicles were traveling fast and close. Not safe and not considerate which is the theme for the day apparently. :)
 
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