FSD Beta v11.x

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

drtimhill said:
Read my post again, what I'm saying is there are no perfect students. What YOU seem to be saying is FSD is junk because it is not perfect.

I’m not saying it’s junk because it’s not perfect. I’m saying it’s junk because it’s not good.

Here’s another video I just took. Explain to me the random slow down and then ridiculous lane bounce when the directions are clearly indicating we should still be going straight. It’s no debate that is not perfect, but I’m pretty sure we can also agree that it’s not good.

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

drtimhill said:
Fine, so drop out of the beta. No-one is forcing you to use it.

What do you gain from that? A bunch of shill videos making others buy the Junk thinking they’ll have an experience as good as Omar’s? I’m showing people what I’m experiencing so they know what they’re possibly signing up for with their $15k

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

Tronguy said:
So. There's been, like, three major pages in this thread at the moment since, roughly, noon EDT. And 90% of it is $JUNK_BRIGADE stating that it's, "JUNK! IT'S JUNK! Don't Bother Me With Any Argument, It's JUNK!!!!!".

Followed by several posters who are pointing out that (a) this is more than a little over the top and (b) accusations of being FanBois and such by the $JUNK_BRIGADE. And responses to that.

Remember how I said a half-dozen pages ago that I was a refugee from the old Tesla.com forums? One of the fun tricks that the trolls would run would be to post back and forth to each other various malignant things about Teslas, other posters, and so on, to the point where any sane discourse was drowned out completely.

Early attempts to battle this tendency was for other posters to not respond to the problem posters. This was followed by even more posting by the perps so that all the posts were from the $EVIL types.

Later attempts were by rebutting the bad guys on every post that they made. Sometimes with boilerplate. And we still had the forums thoroughly polluted by these 2-year-old attempts at monopolizing the conversation.

There's been, in the past five pages or so, exactly two posts that might conceivably not be part of this, "Junk! No Junk!".. fake discussion. One was to say that a push to 11.4.3 had been noted. Followed immediately by a post from the $JUNK_BRIGADE stating that the "Junk was being downloaded."

Remember where I said that Google Search (and similar) indexes these forums? IF it was the $JUNK_BRIGADE's intent to pollute any searches about FSD-b with this.. rather excessive.. arguments about junk/no-junk, I'd say that they would be succeeding wildly.

I don't know if the moderators need to step in or not. But, to those who are managing to turn this place into a cesspool, I'd suggest cooling it for a while.

It’s junk. See 4 videos posted today.

EDIT: You’re right, instead it should be a cesspool of overly positive OMGZ IT DROVE STRAIGHT FOR 100 MILES WITH NO INTERVENTIONS posts….

GSP · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
…… Human plus FSDj is safer than just human? Wowzers. Two humans driving is also safer than one. Like two pilots flying instead of one.

So FSD is as good as a human co-pilot? I agree it can be good by always looking in eight directions at once and never getting distracted, but not as good at the strategy of driving given it probably has less neurons than a flea, much less a human.

Ramphex said:
……. Do you also want to tell me that driving a car with anti-lock brakes is safer? And that properly inflating tires is also safer? Oh and it’s also safer to drive at night with clean headlights. It is also safer to look in both directions when going through a 4 way intersection.

The Junk was supposed to take over the driving. Full Self Driving. It does NOT do that.

Just about everyone thought ABS would be safer, regulators, automakers, safety avocates, etc. However, after there was a significant fleet of ABS-equipped cars on US roads, the accident data showed no significant difference between ABS and non-ABS cars. This real world example shows the power of data-driven decisions, vs. shooting from the hip. I don’t have any data on your other examples, but they likely would hold up to analysis.

GSP

aronth5 · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
Very good. My driving is safe 100% of the time, what’s 80% more of 100%?

Following and understanding your posts is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Entertaining though.
Hey you never posted your driving record after implying we were likely lousy drivers

aronth5 · Jun 12, 2023

Yelobird said:
Don’t think the scroll wheel does anything for “chill” mode. I believe it’s only for FSD configure. I click right one time, select average and minimum lane changes and done. Issue is it reverts the next time you turn on car. No double or other clicking required. Also doesn’t set chill.

If you click the right scroll wheel to the left it will move your setting one place to the left unless of course you're already in chill. I've tried chill but don't see much difference so stay in average or assertive.

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

GSP said:
So FSD is as good as a human co-pilot? I agree it can be good by always looking in eight directions at once and never getting distracted, but not as good at the strategy of driving given it probably has less neurons than a flea, much less a human.

Just about everyone thought ABS would be safer, regulators, automakers, safety avocates, etc. However, after there was a significant fleet of ABS-equipped cars on US roads, the accident data showed no significant difference between ABS and non-ABS cars. This real world example shows the power of data-driven decisions, vs. shooting from the hip. I don’t have any data on your other examples, but they likely would hold up to analysis.

GSP

As far as I’m concerned, ABS allows for more maneuvering while hard braking, where a skid does not have much control. Does it make a difference if you’re just jamming brakes in a straight line trying to not hit an object? That one might get some mixed results.

aronth5 said:
Following and understanding your posts is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Entertaining though.
Hey you never posted your driving record after implying we were likely lousy drivers

I never implied you were lousy drivers. It was a question and not an implication. Someone mentioned FSD drives better than them, and if you watch my most recent video above, that’s not very good driving done by FSD

EVNow · Jun 12, 2023

aronth5 said:
If you click the right scroll wheel to the left it will move your setting one place to the left unless of course you're already in chill. I've tried chill but don't see much difference so stay in average or assertive.

I've always used chill in the hope it reduces lane changes. I think it was working until 11.4.x. Now its erratic like a 16 yr old teen showing off his new driving skills.

ps :

Zero reason to change here. Both lanes are equally busy, need to turn right in a couple of blocks - but FSD wants to change to the left lane. Definitely not to "follow route".

Knightshade · Jun 12, 2023

Ramphex said:
Considering I have 0 at fault accidents. How can you argue the statistics? Sounds like 100% to me.

Notice Teslas data does not cite "at fault" accidents.

it cites ALL accidents, even when the Tesla was not at fault (or in a no fault state I suppose)

And it's 0.31 per 1 million miles for FSD.

And about 1.5 per 1 million for just regular humans.

The fact you had to add "at fault" suggests your # of accidents is more than 0.

Therefore you are less safe than human+FSDb.

And it's likely you've driven less than 1 million miles, meaning you may well be WORSE than the average human alone.

THE ARISTOCRATS!

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

EVNow said:
I've always used chill in the hope it reduces lane changes. I think it was working until 11.4.x. Now its erratic like a 16 yr old teen showing off his new driving skills.

Hey man, if you want to join #TeamJunk, our roster is currently full, but we can add you to the waiting list.

Mardak · Jun 12, 2023

In addition to the 10% rollout of 11.4.3, there's a pretty big push of 2023.20.4.1 (which might have a stable FSD Beta included like 2023.12.10?) that seems to have new functionality to preview all 9 cameras: interior, main, wide, narrow, left pillar, left repeater, right pillar, right repeater, rear.

Tesla Update 2023.20 Will Let You Preview All Nine of Tesla's Cameras [Video]

The features of Tesla's software update 2023.20. From a comprehensive camera preview to refined trip odometer metrics and innovative service mode menus, delve i

www.notateslaapp.com

This could be useful to double check what FSD Beta can actually see at certain positions especially with the pillar cameras which haven't been user accessible before.

sleepydoc · Jun 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
Except for many of us it doesn’t move the stress off the driver. It increases the stress. As I’ve stated many times, I’m more than happy to FSDj this car around with a guest. If you’re in the Seattle area and have decent life insurance, stop on by!

Personally, I’ve found that FSDb has become much more relaxing to use for my general driving. I drove home from work this morning. 10 miles, 25 minutes on city/suburban roads. 0 interventions. I drove my daughter to practice and then came home. 6.6 miles each way, similar roads. 1 disconnect each way when FSDb entered a turn lane instead of going straight. In those cases I tugged the steering wheel to get back in the correct lane, then let FSDb continue on its way. The rest of the time I’m sitting, watching traffic with my hands on my knees.

The last time I drove to and from our cabin (150 miles each way, mixed interstate, state and county roads) It drove the entire trip with no interventions.

Clearly it’s not perfect but it’s also clearly improving and I find It incredibly useful.

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

Knightshade said:
Notice Teslas data does not cite "at fault" accidents.

it cites ALL accidents, even when the Tesla was not at fault (or in a no fault state I suppose)

And it's 0.31 per 1 million miles for FSD.

And about 1.5 per 1 million for just regular humans.

The fact you had to add "at fault" suggests your # of accidents is more than 0.

Therefore you are less safe than human+FSDb.

And it's likely you've driven less than 1 million miles, meaning you may well be WORSE than the average human alone.

THE ARISTOCRATS!

You got to figure out your math here guy. 0 crashes in 1 million miles is 0%. 0 crashes in 100,000 miles is also 0%. Are you saying one 0% is safer than the other 0%? Are you saying no driver could ever be as safe as FSD because chances are not many will ever drive a million miles?

sleepydoc · Jun 12, 2023

drtimhill said:
Perhaps it's not what you want, but is that bad? Regardless of who or what is "safer", the CAR is safer. Seems to me a good thing overall.

And, in effect, ALL the work Tesla are now doing is changing the ratio of how much work the driver does to how much work the car does. The early betas were pretty scary, but lately for average roads FSD is excellent. For me, at least, the result is that when the roads are boring, I can casually watch for stuff that might give the car a headache, and when the going gets messy (e.g. in a crowded city), I can increase my vigilance and/or take over.

Which is basically what every good driver should do anyway. Stay aware of the road conditions and adjust awareness accordingly. So, after all the bluster, FSD is doing exactly what we all wanted, moving a big chunk of the driving stress off the driver. Not sure how that is a bad thing?

I think the bigger issue that Tesla is going to have in the not so distant future is when FSDb gets good enough that it is ‘99% capable.’ Right now, it still messes up enough to keep you on your toes and with some experience you can predict where it’s going to have problems. What happens when it Is good enough that you only have to take over once a week? At that point it can become problematic because the average human doesn’t deal well with monotony. If a system is good enough to cause complacency it could actually be worse because the human will be less likely to pay attention when needed.

In a way that’s what we’ve seen with many of the AP crashes. People use it, are impressed, then become over confident and complacent when it comes to the abilities, to the point that they override the safety mechanism so they can watch movies, sleep, use it in areas for which it’s not designed, etc.

sleepydoc · Jun 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
That really is pretty funny. Meanwhile, my neighbor’s 2016 VW Alltrack with… cough… parking sensors/front and rear RADAR can parallel park so fast it’s hilarious. If you didn’t have to shift gears yourself I’d guess it’s 3x as quick as the Tesla at the maneuver. And yes, that makes it safer as it’s not stuck in the middle of the road as long.

But anyway, back to FSDj being the best. Because it is.

My 2020 MY does a great job of parallel parking.

jebinc · Jun 12, 2023

EVNow said:
?

Are you talking about the hit piece in WaPo where the guy said he uses weights on the wheel ?

No, the Non Human Intelligence claim by the pentagon security official. All over the news after last night’s one hour interview. Sample:

jebinc · Jun 12, 2023

jebinc said:
No, the Non Human Intelligence claim by the pentagon security official. All over the news after last night’s one hour interview. Sample:

Congress to hold hearing on this, given the credibility of the whistleblower, who under oath filed the whistleblower claim.

Ramphex · Jun 12, 2023

cantchoosename said:
I honestly used to like reading some of the things you would post, but you have become very annoying. Please stop bickering with everyone and let the threads get back on topic.

Posted 4 on topic videos that everyone ignores and just continues to disagree with my opinion on FSDj driving quality.

sleepydoc said:
Agreed - At this point Rhampex’s posts are contributing nothing to the thread and actually interfering with any legitimate discussion that might be occurring.

I’ve now posted 4 videos today of FSD’s junk behavior. Here is 2 more making it total of 6 videos today. How much more on topic could it possibly be? OH YEA, it’s not praising the perfection so that’s why it’s unacceptable.

Which one of these videos reflects the more relaxing, safer daily driving experience?

2 new:

Video Jun 12 2023, 15 56 06.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 12 2023, 16 00 54.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

4 previously posted:

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 14 40 17.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 15 08 33.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Video Jun 11 2023, 15 12 07.mov

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

@jebinc @FSDtester#1 @WilliamG @Pdubs @kabin

WilliamG · Jun 12, 2023

sleepydoc said:
My 2020 MY does a great job of parallel parking.

Your 2020 MY also has parking sensors...

WilliamG · Jun 12, 2023

Tronguy said:
Um. It's not perfect. Everybody, including Tesla, knows this. It's also not the Source of All Evil, either. Whatever happened to shades of grey, anyway?

Of course it's not the Source of All Evil. In 2019 when I first bought FSD with my Model 3, I was pretty optimistic (or naive, take your pick). In 2020, I was still relatively optimistic. In 2021, my optimism faltered greatly. In 2022, ditto. In 2023, I'm just rolling my eyes. As has been stated many times, it would be one thing if FSD weren't treated like an actual, real, product you now pay FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS for. Hopefully this thread serves as a warning to those not sure whether to click that buy button.

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