FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[jabloomf1230]

11.8 will fart as it dry wipes. Thanks elon, the farting and dry wiping pretty much summarizes the beta experience.

Wow, that added a lot to the discussion.

 

[Mr. Michael]

Didn’t mean to add to your understanding. Just point out how idiotic beta has become. I guess you already know.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Didn’t mean to add to your understanding. Just point out how idiotic beta has become. I guess you already know.

Don't presume to speak for me.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Your comments might be considered a tiny bit abrasive. Some of this is just venting, and some is venting for a smile. Both are okay, I think, even if they do not aid in any significant understanding.

Joe

Wow, that added a lot to the discussion.

Don't presume to speak for me.

 

[boonedocks]

Starting to look like 11.8.x will be the holiday update. Despite what may want to believe V12 is so far from making it to release and only available to a select few employees that there is just no way it could make it through all the steps needed to reach wide release in just a few days.

Looks like I won’t be entertaining FSD subscription until at least 2025 now

 

[jebinc]

11.8 will fart as it dry wipes. Thanks elon, the farting and dry wiping pretty much summarizes the beta experience.

The @$$ of autonomy…

 

[drtimhill]

Is the vision only approach really have the potential to be that much better than sensors? I feel like there are so many environmental factors that can impair the cameras that other sensors just aren't susceptible to. I'm struggling to see how camera only can outperform a competent sensor suite.

The sensors are mixed at best. They always boing and cluck at me like crazy when I back out of my garage, and there are sections of roadway where they simply insist there are obstacles everywhere even though the lanes are clear.

 

[S100D]

Agreed, and EAP doesn't stay in the passing lane. It can and does move back to the right lane.

EAP used to automatically move into the passing lane when a car in front of it was driving slower. I would then move back into the right lane after passing the car. I am on 2023.4.7.3 and I have to click on the left blinker to change lanes but it does move back into the right lane. Tesla changed this and it sucks.

 

[Hiline]

EAP used to automatically move into the passing lane when a car in front of it was driving slower. I would then move back into the right lane after passing the car. I am on 2023.4.7.3 and I have to click on the left blinker to change lanes but it does move back into the right lane. Tesla changed this and it sucks.

That's not too bad. Half of the times my Tesla FSD would not even execute a lane change after I click on the stalk multiple times.

 

[cbdream99]

That's not too bad. Half of the times my Tesla FSD would not even execute a lane change after I click on the stalk multiple times.

This is the most annoying thing, it used to do it in 11.3.6 though a little slow, but now lots of the time it just won't do anything, drivers behind me must be thinking I am a granny, sometimes it works like before and it doesn't have a clear pattern to me.

 

[archae86]

That's not too bad. Half of the times my Tesla FSD would not even execute a lane change after I click on the stalk multiple times.

On my car the way to nudge FSD to make a lane change is to move the stalk up all the way to the hard stop before just letting got--not just past the detent. That seems to work reliably for me. Sometimes it waits a while for a suitable opportunity--which is good.

 

[aataskin]

The sensors are mixed at best. They always boing and cluck at me like crazy when I back out of my garage, and there are sections of roadway where they simply insist there are obstacles everywhere even though the lanes are clear.

I can tell you for a fact that this is not the case for all car manufacturers. And in fact Tesla was very much up there with the rest of them up until recently:

Check out 20:00 when he gives up on a recent M3 and tries his old Model S.

So no, the sensors are not mixed at best. They are really very good, I doubt many people in this forum would seriously argue with this statement.

 

[chillinois]

First road trip (1000 miles round trip) with FSD and overall I was really happy with it. I know it's basically autopilot on the highway -- but I have found FSD to be better than AP on highways with the exception of crazy lane changes. I was pretty worried about phantom braking and crazy lane changes but lucked out with zero phantom braking and found that the minimal lane change setting worked great. The car drove super smoothly and I loved having the car make the lane changes for me when I signaled. It's amazing how little things like that can make a difference in fatigue driving.

I went into the trip with enough experience with FSD to be be wary but ended the trip really loving it. At first I was annoyed by the constant nagging but I grew to appreciate the fact that it did indeed keep me focused on the road. I kept telling myself that I am driving the car and that FSD is just a really good drive assistance program. Still, it's easy to get complacent so the "annoying" nagging was probably okay in the end.

Here are a few of the issues I did have:
1. It doesn't handle cross traffic on highways well. A car can cross the highway in plenty of time but my car would slow down a lot even though there was no longer a car in front of me. I don't count this as phantom braking as I can see what's causing it and it's really easy to account for (I was on alert anyway as I figured this could be a problem). Not a big deal as this doesn't happen a lot and again it's easy to just keep the foot on the accelerator when this happens.
2. Frequent warnings of camera degradation. Not sure what causes this but during certain stretches this warning would come and go. I kept the system on but was just more ready to take over. The system worked fine but the beeping every minute was a bit annoying (though better than not alerting for sure). The problem would clear itself up in five minutes or so, so I'm not sure what was really going on.
3. It did not take exits well at all. It would exit a little late and not signal until after making the move. It also would take them at a worryingly high speed. I really don't need the car to do this on it's own so not a a big deal, but I was kind of suprised.
4. One time the car swerved into a turn lane on the right instead of going straight -- I assume, because of the weird markings of the lane. Not a big deal as I was able to correct. Frankly, I'm surprised it only had one lane keeping issue in over 1000 miles.


Overall, it was pretty amazing and made the trip a lot easier. It's always good when you appreciate your car more after a road trip.

My experience exactly. Just came back from a 2000 mile round-trip w/ FSD 11.4.7.2. Did almost the exact same last May w/ whatever FSD at the time and it did pretty well, but w/ a handful phantom braking incidents.

FSD would literally follow the white line on exits which is super annoying (swerves to the right). Also when the highway spreads out to an extra lane and you're in the right lane it would move over suddenly, or if FSD can't tell it's an exit (no lines), it would also move to the right suddenly.

Only other thing I noticed is the navigation and FSD aren't tied well. Once I had a right exit in <1.5mi and FSD wanted to move to the passing lane instead. Not a good idea. All in all, fairly minor and made driving 500mi/day much much easier.

I was offered 11.4.7.3 right before departing on the trip and I kept declining because I've had bad releases in the past and 4.7.2 was good enough. Updated yesterday and 4.7.3 is seemingly better and not nagging me nearly as much (if at all).

 

[Iain]

I can tell you for a fact that this is not the case for all car manufacturers. And in fact Tesla was very much up there with the rest of them up until recently:

Check out 20:00 when he gives up on a recent M3 and tries his old Model S.

So no, the sensors are not mixed at best. They are really very good, I doubt many people in this forum would seriously argue with this statement.

I noticed the a Tesla was a 2019. Were the Audi and Ford equally as old?

 

[kabin]

I can tell you for a fact that this is not the case for all car manufacturers. And in fact Tesla was very much up there with the rest of them up until recently:

Check out 20:00 when he gives up on a recent M3 and tries his old Model S.

So no, the sensors are not mixed at best. They are really very good, I doubt many people in this forum would seriously argue with this statement.

That's a classic video. They can't stop hysterically laughing (@12:00) with how bad Tesla performed. Sad!

 

[kabin]

I noticed the a Tesla was a 2019. Were the Audi and Ford equally as old?

The older 2017 Tesla AP1 hardware performed better than the 2019 Tesla.

 

[Iain]

The older 2017 Tesla AP1 hardware performed better than the 2019 Tesla.

I wouldn’t know. I have 2020 and it’s decent at self parking ( not great). My question was not if a 2017 was better than 2019 Tesla. It was if the other cars were equally as old. I went back and saw the video is 1 year old, so I’ll just assume he’s comparing a 2017/2019 Tesla against a 2022/3 Audi BMW.

 

[aronth5]

Saw a post on X confirming someone just received 2023.38.9. (11.4.4). Did a software check and am now downloading the update. Coming from 2023.32.9.

 

[sleepydoc]

Regarding the placement of the b-pillar camera-
I did some measurements on my Model Y just now. It's definitely shorter than 9 feet from the camera to the nose but that measurement is really irrelevant. What's relevant when comparing to a human driver is the difference in sight lines. When I'm sitting in a normal driving position (for me) there's less than 6" difference between the B pillar camera and my eyes. If I lean forward as I might when trying to peer around a corner it's closer to 18". If I really crane as far forward as I can so my head is hitting the steering wheel it's about 24". Does this make a difference? Yes. Is it significant? Not really, IME.

The bigger issue has to do with processing, perception and lag. On a very frequent basis my car starts creeping forward towards traffic even when the sight lines are totally clear and there's no need to do so. This is disconcerting to the approaching traffic as they think I'm about to pull out. It's also less safe because it's putting the nose of my car closer to the cross traffic unnecessarily.

The other big issue is the lag - very frequently it seems to need to 'think' about the traffic before acting. With blind intersections such as these you need to act decisively. Waffling just makes a bad intersection worse.

Finally, I'll add that while people may be correct that these are poorly designed and dangerous intersections, the fact is that they exist so FSD needs to handle them.

 

[Ramphex]

Added another Tesla thing to the beta list. Powerwall Beta. My lights flicker and 3 UPS units don’t register powerwall power because of the frequency being set too high. Support Beta comms below.