FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[MP3Mike]

Ever have your vehicle revert back to AP and make you select FSD again (clicking agree box)? I've had it do it twice in the past month. ('17 X)
ie. Starting off on a drive with a destination and engage "FSD" only to find that when it gets close to a turn that it is not turning on the blink and moving into a turn lane.

Only when I reset the camera calibration. (Well I think one of the FSD Beta versions reset the setting and required to re-opt in as well.)

 

[aronth5]

Me also...

I honestly thought MP3Mike was pouring beer onto the windshield!

Maybe someone should try that since it will probably solve all the wiper problems! Since I don't drink beer I'm sure someone else will volunteer.

 

[kabin]

Spectacurrendous lane selection and flailing here:

Yes, he says v11.4.8.1 isn't any better than v11.4.4. He couldn't detect the video module improvement.

Abrupt steering, jerking accel/braking. Rt turns with creep/crawl at intersections take about 5secs. Waits until last second to initiate lane changes even with no traffic. FSD makes incorrect lane changes and turns for selected path.

I hope the team didn't spend much time on this build because that's how it feels.

 

[willow_hiller]

Abrupt steering, jerking accel/braking.

I think that's a part of the lower latency of the new video module. For months now Tesla has had control tuned to the latency of the older code; they probably haven't dialed in control for the new video module.

Last time I tested it, it felt more aware and responsive. But that responsiveness also comes across as jumpy.

This is why end to end on V12 is important. No possibility for disconnect between perception and control when both are a part of the same network.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

disconnect between perception and control when both are a part of the same network.

* different networks (imo). (Just based on carefully parsing Elon and Ashok’s statements)

 

[powertoold]

I excessively dry wiped today

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I excessively dry wiped today

Use a bidet, you’ll never go back.

 

[jebinc]

I excessively dry wiped today

Did you apply the appropriate amount of ointment, afterwards?

 

[jebinc]

Use a bidet, you’ll never go back.

+1. We have three.

 

[EVNow]

I honestly thought MP3Mike was pouring beer onto the windshield!

Depends on how many they had before the pouring ...

 

[ArchHamster]

So, I installed 11.4.8.1 today. No drives on it but I'm not expecting any huge improvements.

That's not why I'm posting. So after the install, my car was stuck trying to update the steam app at like 10 kb/s. When I approached the car from the back, there was a weird smell. I've noticed this smell before after taking long drives. It kind of smells like a dog who just jumped out of a city river. To be clear, it's not in the cabin, it's just the area around the rear wheels. I've had this happen in both my teslas. Does anyone know what this smell is? Some sort of verting process from the battery packs?

Anyways, I restarted the car and the download speeds went from 10 kb/s to like 80 mb/s. After updating, I opened steam thinking they finally fixed the bug where you can't download games while the car is closed and empty or, at the very least, let you download games over your wifi instead of the tesla network.

Nope. Idk why steam updated with this version of beta. I can't even hope for a none buggy steam. Feels bad bros. I don't think full self robowipers are coming anytime soon.

 

[jebinc]

So, I installed 11.4.8.1 today. No drives on it but I'm not expecting any huge improvements.

That's not why I'm posting. So after the install, my car was stuck trying to update the steam app at like 10 kb/s. When I approached the car from the back, there was a weird smell. I've noticed this smell before after taking long drives. It kind of smells like a dog who just jumped out of a city river. To be clear, it's not in the cabin, it's just the area around the rear wheels. I've had this happen in both my teslas. Does anyone know what this smell is? Some sort of verting process from the battery packs?

Anyways, I restarted the car and the download speeds went from 10 kb/s to like 80 mb/s. After updating, I opened steam thinking they finally fixed the bug where you can't download games while the car is closed and empty or, at the very least, let you download games over your wifi instead of the tesla network.

Nope. Idk why steam updated with this version of beta. I can't even hope for a none buggy steam. Feels bad bros. I don't think full self robowipers are coming anytime soon.

Got DWS? If so, apply some Desitin….

 

[sleepydoc]

Nope. I'll record and post.

Besides when its raining it gives an error/warning when engaging FSD saying FSD may be degraded.

ps : I hope you aren't into UX design

You should hope I am - combining auditory and visual cues is good UI design.

Just happened again. Zero, Zilch difference in the sound that I could detect. First only TACC engaged. Next time FSD. I've to record and check - but absolutely same sounds .... well, it sounded like

I was also thinking about the visual - the biggest visual is the speed changing to blue. That happens with TACC. A tiny wheel changing to blue and the path changing from light blue to darker blue are not visually striking.

If I were managing the project, I'd not allow this kind of UX to go out.

Odd - what are you driving? (I have a 2020 LR MY)

In my car:
TACC on: Single tone, speed changes to blue (there's a video here, the tones can be heard at about 0:44 and 0:55)
FSD On: Double ascending tone (2nd tone higher than the first) Speed changes to blue, The steering wheel on the screen turns blue and the car gets a blue ribbon/tentacle/linguini (you can see this on this video at about 1:45 and 6:45 for the on and off chimes)
TACC off: Single tone, speed indicator no longer blue. (Plus the car starts slowing down if you don't use the accelerator - can't get much more obvious than that!)
FSD Off: Double descending tone (2nd tone lower than the first) Speed unchanged but the steering wheel icon is grey instead of blue and the car no longer has a blue path ribbon. At 7:49 on the CUL video above there's an example of the single tone when you disengage FSD but leave TACC engaged.

Tesla has these tones on a web page: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-AA58ED67-9C93-4EE6-8B19-9FDABE018787.html
At the very bottom are the TACC and auto steer engage/disengage tones. The "Autopilot Alerts" tone is what I get when FSD doesn't engage.

Bottom line, there's a clear audio signal when TACC or FSD are engaged or disengaged that you can hear and distinguish whether you are looking at the screen or not. If you're not hearing these tones it's either a difference between models (I doubt this) or something else is up.

 

[sleepydoc]

So I've tried 11.4.8.1 on a couple drives. The wipers definitely aren't fixed. They may be a bit worse or may be about the same, hard to tell.

Driving is about the same but I'll have to drive more to get a better idea. No huge differences that I've noticed but I really didn't expect much for a minor release.

I tried the 'single pull to activate FSD' and it's a huge fail, IMO. If you turn the wheel with FSD activated it goes back to full manual mode, no TACC. You save yourself a half calorie of energy by not having to pull the stalk twice and for that trivial difference you no longer have TACC at all. I still fail to see what the attraction is - I'm not nearly as negative about FSD as some people here but there are still plenty of times when I prefer to use TACC and drive myself rather than use FSD. This 'feature' takes that option away.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This 'feature' takes that option away.

They’ll probably stop shipping cars with TACC soon because “their ‘data’ show it is unsafe.”

I would not be surprised if accident rates were a bit higher with TACC, but of course that says nothing about its relative safety.

 

[ArchHamster]

...

I tried the 'single pull to activate FSD' and it's a huge fail, IMO. If you turn the wheel with FSD activated it goes back to full manual mode, no TACC. You save yourself a half calorie of energy by not having to pull the stalk twice and for that trivial difference you no longer have TACC at all. I still fail to see what the attraction is - I'm not nearly as negative about FSD as some people here but there are still plenty of times when I prefer to use TACC and drive myself rather than use FSD. This 'feature' takes that option away.

I think this is really for people with stalkless teslas, and they are pushing it to older model 3's/y's in preparation for highlander(3 refresh)/juniper(y refresh) to reduce differences in code between the 4 cars.

On the refreshed X, we've had an option for a single button press to activate FSD for a long time now. This is my preferred method because a button press on a yoke does not feel as confident as a tap on a stalk. Not to mention your hand may have to chase the moving autopilot button whereas the stalk doesn't move with the wheel. It's in the same place all the time. While it wasn't common, when I had two presses on my X to enable FSD, I was accidently entering TACC when I meant to enter FSD from thinking I pressed twice, but only one press registering. This almost threw me into a curve one time, and since then I've had my X on single click. For disengaging FSD Beta in the X, I want to fully exit all autonomous systems, not downgrade to TACC. So this works well for me. I do slightly miss TACC but the method for enabling TACC vs FSD Beta in the X never felt safe to me. In the Y, I'm happy it's there, just for consistency between my two vehicles, but I agree it doesn't make much sense for tesla's with stalks.

 

[Supcom]

So I've tried 11.4.8.1 on a couple drives. The wipers definitely aren't fixed. They may be a bit worse or may be about the same, hard to tell.

Driving is about the same but I'll have to drive more to get a better idea. No huge differences that I've noticed but I really didn't expect much for a minor release.

I tried the 'single pull to activate FSD' and it's a huge fail, IMO. If you turn the wheel with FSD activated it goes back to full manual mode, no TACC. You save yourself a half calorie of energy by not having to pull the stalk twice and for that trivial difference you no longer have TACC at all. I still fail to see what the attraction is - I'm not nearly as negative about FSD as some people here but there are still plenty of times when I prefer to use TACC and drive myself rather than use FSD. This 'feature' takes that option away.

If you like to use TACC on occasion, then single-pull is not for you. I very rarely use TACC on my car with FSD, so single-pull is OK. On my car without FSD, I don't like single-pull because I want TACC to take over when Autosteer disengages on lane change signals. With single-pull, the car goes back to manual.

 

[Dave EV]

A four way stop with no traffic still requires about 5 secs of dilly dally, creep, crawl, herky jerkies. No cross traffic to evaluate improvement so maybe still hope there?

In my case when this happens, the car appears to think the 4-way stop is a 3-way stop. Not sure why.

 

[PianoAl]

Maybe someone should try that since it will probably solve all the wiper problems! Since I don't drink beer I'm sure someone else will volunteer.

I think an anti-psychotic is needed.

 

[PianoAl]

If you turn the wheel with FSD activated it goes back to full manual mode, no TACC.

Ah, nice. For me, that's a big upgrade. I don't think I've used TACC once in the three years we've had the car.