FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[hybridbear]

So in summary, what are the changes coming to legacy cars? We don't have a cabin camera, so how are our FSD Beta nags changing? Or are they the same?
We get 1 pull AP (I tested this on a loaner Model 3 last week & hated it so I don't think it will be useful on our S).
The alternate routes while driving would be very nice, so do we actually get that? There was some confusion.
What about the map enhancements to show stop signs & traffic lights? That's the other feature I actually want.
Right now our car is waiting for wifi to download 2023.44.30.4. I think it's going to be a long time before I connect it to wifi again. I'll let Tesla take the hit on downloading it over celular to us.

 

[cbdream99]

It nags more about steering torque for my older S, I experienced more nags since 11.4.x but this new one seems to be more frequent, really have to consciously doing it otherwise it will come up again, I need to test it more to see this new behavior.

 

[cbdream99]

So in summary, what are the changes coming to legacy cars? We don't have a cabin camera, so how are our FSD Beta nags changing? Or are they the same?
We get 1 pull AP (I tested this on a loaner Model 3 last week & hated it so I don't think it will be useful on our S).
The alternate routes while driving would be very nice, so do we actually get that? There was some confusion.
What about the map enhancements to show stop signs & traffic lights? That's the other feature I actually want.
Right now our car is waiting for wifi to download 2023.44.30.4. I think it's going to be a long time before I connect it to wifi again. I'll let Tesla take the hit on downloading it over celular to us.

Singe pull does not apply to legacy S, I am waiting for map downloads to see any visualization changes.

 

[old pilot]

Was on 2023.27.12, 11.4.8.1 got 2023.44.30.2, 11.4.9 this morning. Drove for 15 miles round trip, clear day light to moderate traffic. No dry wipes but it was clear sky so I did not expect any problems. Seems more certain when pulling into traffic, moves without hesitation. Reads school zone signs of 15 mph then immediately changes back to 45 mph which is posted speed limit for the roadway when school is not in session. Still has the dedicated right turn lane fetish, goes into the lane and then gets out of the lane when it realizes it's not part of the route. I do think it drives with more confidence, whether or not that is justified or not is the question.

 

[jebinc]

Reads school zone signs of 15 mph then immediately changes back to 45 mph which is posted speed limit for the roadway when school is not in session.

About time; this is a good improvement! Now, if it only didn't try to go around loading/unloading school buses....

 

[old pilot]

About time; this is a good improvement! Now, if it only didn't try to go around loading/unloading school buses....

I should clarify, It reads the school zone speed limit and displays the 15 mph sign but then immediately changes the display to 45 mph. So it is reading the school zone sign but then ignoring it in favor of the 45 mph map data for the road. I hope that helps.

 

[jebinc]

I should clarify, It reads the school zone speed limit and displays the 15 mph sign but then immediately changes the display to 45 mph. So it is reading the school zone sign but then ignoring it in favor of the 45 mph map data for the road. I hope that helps.

Ah, that's more like it... for a second, I actually thought Tesla fixed something....


FSDj 11.4.9...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

but we all know that Telsa will disable them at some point

Not sure why people think this. It’s not going to happen, and is not analogous to radar hobbling.

There’s just no plausible justification or reason (even by Tesla’s standards) for it. There is no downside to just leaving the option on (possibly requiring loss of other features of course!).

Feel free to quote me on this in a couple years, .

 

[jebinc]

Not sure why people think this. It’s not going to happen, and is not analogous to radar hobbling.

There’s just no plausible justification or reason (even by Tesla’s standards) for it. There is no downside to just leaving the option on (possibly requiring loss of other features of course!).

Feel free to quote me on this in a couple years, .

Oh...... we will!

 

[aataskin]

05:20

 

[PACEMD]

I'm probably more in the fanboy camp than in the junk camp, but I think the correct view is somewhere in between. T

I'm a fan of the junkboys but I light my campfires with a hollow stick. Meaning I'm downloading 44.30.2 as we cook.........

 

[MP3Mike]

I think you need the map/navigation update to 2023.44 as well to get the new map details/icons. So make sure you connect your car to WiFi when it is parked to get the map updates.

Well I was wrong on this. You don't need the navigation data update. Mine had just started downloading the new maps when I left, and the new icons showed up on my route. They only show up when using the navigation system, and they show up for about the next mile ahead on your route.

 

[oneday]

I’m 40 minutes into this update. And it’s still not finished. Don’t know why I had to do the darn update before a meeting. I think I’m slowing it down because I keep checking on it. Oops.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Thanks.

I've also noticed that FSD beta seems to nudge itself a bit in the opposite direction from the turn. So for example, at an intersection, when it needs to turn right, it will move a bit to the left before turning right. I suspect this is done on purpose to give the car more space to make the turn.

I think it does that to give the B pillar camera a better view

 

[mtndrew1]

I think it does that to give the B pillar camera a better view

I find the behavior alarming; it feels like it’s going to pop over into an adjacent lane with passing traffic.

 

[kabin]

I did another test drive. Unfortunately I experienced two hard phantom braking episodes as well as periodic brief but softer braking episodes. FSD has a hankering to lift off the throttle for no apparent reason.

The photo radar intersection isn't displaying on the UI even with the latest map update. Nav settings are set for online routing as required.

FSD wasn't able to correctly interpret road construction where the right lane (my lane) ended. There was a vehicle in the left lane leading by about 1 sec. FSD should've slowed and merged behind the left lane vehicle but instead maintained the same speed and jammed my car between the bollards and the vehicle in the left lane. It behaved just like the highway zipper lane snafu except FSD wanted to up close and personal with the left lane vehicle.

Although the vision module was suppose to improve it, FSD still over reacts to lead vehicles entering the median or turn lanes. It's as if FSD has poor estimates of the lead vehicle's range, velocity and path. This in spite of many software update release notes reporting sizeable % improvements in object kinematics.

 

[archae86]

Our 2022 model Y and 2023 model 3 both downloaded software 2023.44.30.2 last night. I installed both on getting up. Three hours later I hopped in the car and hit the Software item, scrolling down so I could see it saying it was checking for updates. And it proclaimed it was downloading a new map, something starting 2022.44 replacing one starting 2022.20.

I have never before thought there was a clear association of a new map release with a software release, but I do this time (given previous reports here added to my personal observation).

 

[kabin]

Even though there's only two days left on my three month FSD trial, I still got the holiday update this morning, and moved from 11.4.4 to 11.4.9 and... oh dear. There is phantom braking where none before and aggressive stops at stop signs with slamming on the brakes the last metre or so, followed by hard acceleration. While trying to follow a car going slower than the set speed it repeatedly accelerates a bit and then slows down too much, requiring acceleration again. The car will aggressively try to turn left after stopping at an intersection, only to suddenly become paralyzed with indecision and try to stop halfway through the turn. Once, turning left while waiting for oncoming traffic, it kept turning the wheel and trying to creep into the oncoming lane traffic. All this over about a 8 km drive. It went from somewhat usable with strict supervision to basically unusable. If the idea of the three month trial was to get people to buy FSD, I feel it's been a complete failure.

I fear the tricks they used to reduce latency exacerbates false alarms and phantom braking. It's too early to say but v11.4.9 is beginning to feel like the worst phantom braking version I've driven. One time it came to a full hard stop and sat there for a couple of seconds.

 

[jebinc]

Oh wow... My Rivian (which has working auto wipers) is getting an update that improves the already working auto wipers.... Nice!

"Automatic Wiper Sensitivity Control
We added the ability to select from three automatic wiper sensitivity levels to suit your preference. Use Auto mode to access these settings.

• When you toggle the wiper switch down to Auto, it changes to the highest sensitivity level.
• Toggle the switch down again in Auto mode to decrease the sensitivity, and then up to increase it.

Instead of toggling, you can also hold the wiper switch up to jump to Storm, or hold the wiper switch down to jump to Auto. When you jump down to Auto, it recalls your previously selected sensitivity setting."

Telsa?
"GFY" - says Elon...

 

[MP3Mike]

It's too early to say but v11.4.9 is beginning to feel like the worst phantom braking version I've driven. One time it came to a full hard stop and sat there for a couple of seconds.

Weird that it is so bad for you. I've only used it for about 20 miles so far, but it seems slightly better than FSDb 11.4.8.1, which was the best one I've had so far.

I had no dry wipes, but there was no rain today to test if it responds to rain properly. (In 11.4.8.1 the wipers seemed to be working pretty well.)

The biggest improvement I've seen in 11.4.9 is fewer false slowdowns when someone is turning across your path, but will be out of your way before you get there. Prior versions would slow down after the path was clear, today it highlighted the crossing car in dark blue but didn't slow down.

FSDb 11.4.8.1 seemed to introduce a new slowing when approaching traffic lights that it couldn't see, I assume so that it wouldn't have to slam the brakes on once they came in to view and were red. The weirdest was that I was behind a Semi at a red light, the Semi proceeded through the intersection when the light went green, but FSDb only pulled up to the stop line and stopped until it could see the light was green for itself. (I suppose it is the safest behavior as the Semi could have ran the red light.)