FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[jeewee3000]

FSDbeta 12.3 seems safe enough and smooth enough.
Let's get that free month trial for North America out of the way so us Europeans can get our hands on it too! (/jealous)

 

[sleepydoc]

Various regressions with 12.3 such as staying stopped for flashing red lights or red lanterns requiring intervention, but most egregious was exit lane confusion with disengagement at a gore point:

View attachment 1028178

FSD Beta blue path and Autosteer wheel are still blue in this screenshot indicating it wanted to go right, but the steering wheel was jerking left perhaps as part of the disengagement to take the left-side exit? Although maybe it would have taken the right-side exit fine? [edit: checking the navigation, the right-side was actually correct.]

are highways V11 or V12.3?

 

[kabin]

Yep. V12.3 looks better, not perfect of course, but seems safer than v11.4.9. Maybe they continue with the v12.3 release or wait to add Chuck's unprotected left turn.

 

[nikolajz1]

V12 still mostly going out to CA drivers?

 

[spacecoin]

FSDbeta 12.3 seems safe enough and smooth enough.
Let's get that free month trial for North America out of the way so us Europeans can get our hands on it too! (/jealous)

Still not legal. And no, an UNECE regulation doesn't make it legal. Perhaps next year. Perhaps never.

 

[PianoAl]

I wish Tesla had a way to let users edit videos, take snapshots and send to email from the touch screen and remotely download videos from the car to the computer.

I agree, but it really is pretty simple to pause recording, pull out the USB, and plug it into the computer.

Definitive test of speed stuttering on 12.3 coming this afternoon!

 

[gsmith123]

I wish Tesla has a way to let users edit videos, take snapshots and send to email from the touch screen and remotely download videos from the car to the computer.

I know! The number of smart phone videos of the cars screen playing dashcam footage is appalling. Where's the "Share to social media" button? If I drive an iPad on wheels why can't it do iPad things?

(Probably a better solution would be able to access dash cam footage via mobile app, if you have premium connectivity)

 

[Mardak]

So far on TeslaFi no version 4 getting 12.3

V12 still mostly going out to CA drivers?

All the new additions on TeslaFi from 11.x so far have been from California as well. So for those in California with HW3 (and FSD), seems like currently just over ~10% chance to have gotten 12.3 if on 2023.44.30.x. (100 total TeslaFi pending/installed 12.3 / (~330 .8 + ~480 .14 + ~70 .25 HW3 California))

Seems like there are vehicles outside of California or with HW4 on 12.3, so hopefully that means the same version could roll out wider to these audiences soon.

 

[Mardak]

are highways V11 or V12.3?

There might be a slight change from 12.2.1 where it seems like 12.3 has more time to complete a lane change from the onramp before it switches to 11.x for highways. The particular gore point disengagement had switched back to 12.3 city streets for the off-ramp (34:18) and this subsequent fork (34:28), although the hand-off wasn't super smooth either: "banking a little far right."

See the AUTO max set speed for it no longer on 11.x behavior.

 

[asterothe]

All the new additions on TeslaFi from 11.x so far have been from California as well. So for those in California with HW3 (and FSD), seems like currently just over ~10% chance to have gotten 12.3 if on 2023.44.30.x. (100 total TeslaFi pending/installed 12.3 / (~330 .8 + ~480 .14 + ~70 .25 HW3 California))

Seems like there are vehicles outside of California or with HW4 on 12.3, so hopefully that means the same version could roll out wider to these audiences soon.

And CA with HW4? What's the ratio?

 

[Larry Hutchinson]

I just got 12.3 - coming from 11.4.9

Same here. 2018 m3.

In preparation, I added a new profile that I named no fsd, so I can use TACC without autosteer.

 

[Jeff N]

I just got back from a grocery run that was my first drive on FSD 12.3. Generally things seemed good. A little more confident feeling and I noticed a couple of improvements at places where 12.2.1 had issues. For example, an intersection where 12.2.1 wasn’t making a full stop has been fixed.

However…. As I was nearing home I ended up being the lead car in a dedicated left turn waiting on a red light so we could make an unprotected left turn at a busy intersection.

About 15 seconds into our waiting on the red light, the software suddenly threw up the “red steering wheel of death” and said “auto steering has aborted” or something like that. The lane mappings went away but the car continued to track and animate the movement of other cars at the intersection for a few seconds. Then, the screen went empty (all white) except for my car for a few seconds and then then FSD fully rebooted. The whole process took less than a minute and I was able to re-engage it although by that time I had manually driven through the left turn.

I haven’t had system crashes like this for awhile and didn’t have any on 12.2.1.

 

[TK211X]

No…. Stop…. Everything must be without issue. I’m turning blue from waiting

 

[CaCar]

Just got v12.3 from v11.4.9
HW4 MX California

Very smooth. Not perfect though.

 

[Mardak]

I would expect more of that happening again without the 300k lines of code

looks like a regression all the way back to 10.x at that particular spot

Yeah, people should be extra careful of behaviors that even 10.x was able to do safely as end-to-end replacing 300k lines of code can result in regressions from 10.x, 11.x or even earlier 12.x. Hopefully people are paying attention enough to avoid curbing wheels or override unnecessary harsh braking that people behind wouldn't expect at green lights.

I wonder if even partially bad disengagement or intervention data such as correcting steering to avoid a curb or pressing on the accelerator to go through what end-to-end thought was a red light is still overall good for training? Assuming training excludes the bad FSD behavior from say 1 second earlier, the recovery behavior is still a better training target than the current desire to drive into a curb or stop at a green. And theoretically neural networks could learn that the corrected behavior was more generally because a curb or green light was actually there, and this improved general understanding could be enough signal boost to also correct the behavior starting even 1 second earlier?

 

[Mardak]

Same here. 2018 m3

Just checking, you're in Oregon, but have you been to California recently or often? Hopefully you're the start of a rollout of 12.x to more states.

HW4 MX California

Thanks! Nice to see HW4 vehicles (not employees or special group) getting added even when TeslaFi continues to show 0.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If no crunchy crunch, maybe wider rollout tonight? The influencers should only post good things, so that Tesla thinks it is great. The more likely thing is another week or so though I suppose.

Just as long as they don’t incorporate those curated unprotected left video clips, I’ll be happy. Though not sure it really matters. Maybe it’ll be the difference between ~3/10 and ~7/10 or something?

There must be around a billion relevant possible scenarios at that turn (just super rough with five different speeds, five different distances, etc. - of course actual number of scenarios is uncountable). Crazy to think a NN can do it (reliably, with traffic). We’ll see! Tesla will make me a believer!

 

[Mardak]

I haven’t had system crashes like this for awhile and didn’t have any on 12.2.1.

Interesting that visualizations crashed for lanes but not cars. I noticed 12.2.1 seemly running visualizations for both lanes and cars on one node/SoC separate from end-to-end control, so when visualizations crashed, there wasn't the big "red steering wheel of death" as it was running on a separate node. Perhaps 12.3 is sharing end-to-end compute with lanes now? But that's odd to be taking away what seemed to be compute dedicated to the new network unless 12.3 is depending on some 11.x lanes predictions now?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

unless 12.3 is depending on some 11.x lanes predictions now?

Isn’t that what is generally understood to be happening? Just integrated end-to-end, with lanes, occupancy, etc. One day they’ll do a presentation and confirm it for sure I guess.

 

[Mardak]

I wonder if the person(s) who let the car get into the parking lot 'incident' will still be getting 12.3.

Looks like answer is yes:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768673389106122962

(No, the video doesn't have another crash "2.0." It does have a nice gap selection at 0:40 in front of the slower truck to smoothly switch 2 lanes into the parking lot turn lane just after the intersection. And a reasonably good diagonal parking at the end but in a handicap spot.)