FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[PianoAl]

Today's email from Tesla:

You now have access to Full Self-Driving (Supervised). With human-like responsiveness, your Tesla can assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving such as navigating lane changes and roundabouts as well as managing your speed along your route.​

Which is funny because we already have FSD, I generally take over for roundabouts, and the thing v12 does least well is manage speed. It does well with lane changes, though, and I'm still a fan.

 

[gsmith123]

Theoretically, data could be crowd-sourced from the fleet, fed back into Tesla's mapping database, then dished back out to the cars when they download map metadata as they drive through a region. So while it felt 42mph was the right speed the other day, 3 different vehicles were observed with the driver "encouraging" the car to go 48mph on that road instead, so they updated the map metadata, and the next time I drove down that road, it used the updated "preferred speed".

Or other data like lane topology, positions of signs, stop lights, etc.

I don't have the source handy but I believe people have figured out the cars do in fact download supplemental updated map data in real time. Anecdotally I've certainly seen the car improve it's handling of specific locations over the week after a release goes out. As the fleet refills the map cache, so to speak, after a release it works better for all of us.

 

[JB47394]

You in Chill mode? I'm getting the feeling many people are in Assertive hearing all the speeding posts. Chill should be about 5% which is fine for me.

Well, I tried Chill and had to turn off Auto Set Speed Offset when I was in a 35 zone and the speed was still slowly climbing at 45. When I cancelled Auto, it showed a computed max speed of 52. I assume that's a bug, but I wasn't going to try to tell the police that when I got pulled over. I went back to relying on the posted limit plus 10%, and it did a pretty good job with that. They still need to fix those rocket launches from a standing start, though.

 

[Supcom]

Traveling SE on Texas 287 between Amarillo and Childress, the car doesn't read most speed limit signs (or they aren't programmed in), but the speed limit is 75 most of the time. The car behaves differently than when it was on I 40. I'm guessing it is treating TX 287 as not a highway. Many disengagements. It must not be using the freeway code, I think.

I did some testing on Texas State Highway 66 where the road is two lane with speed limits of 65 and 70 mph. The car runs the V11 stack here but, like other similar roads, did not pick up on the 65 mph or 70 mph speed limit signs, so needed to roll up the speed to an appropriate level. Earlier in the week I tested on a similar road with 65 mph limit that was ignored by the V11 stack. This time, I had both 65 and 70 mph limits.

These roads used to work correctly on the V11 single stack FSD, so it appears that there is something broken for these type of roads with V12. Hopefully, V12 will expand to cover all roads soon so this will become OBE. Until then, it's a simple matter to up (or down) the speed. Just curious that this bug crept in.

 

[Twiglett]

In instances like that, I would try and get dashcam to capture… you can set it up to record with a. HORN honk, or just tap the screen.. that sort of video would be very useful for FSDb Engineering.

That’s what is supposed to happen when you report it as well. I report all of the issues I see.

 

[Supcom]

I came upon a construction zone with 12.3.3 today. My lane was closed on a two-lane highway with flagmen directing traffic through the opposing lane in turns. The car smoothly crossed the double yellow lane to follow the car ahead and directions from the flagman, then crossed back into the proper lane at the end of the zone. Perfectly executed.

To celebrate, the car mistakenly got in a right turn only lane a mile up the road. Sigh...

 

[Twiglett]

Today's email from Tesla:

You now have access to Full Self-Driving (Supervised). With human-like responsiveness, your Tesla can assist you with the most burdensome parts of driving such as navigating lane changes and roundabouts as well as managing your speed along your route.​

Which is funny because we already have FSD, I generally take over for roundabouts, and the thing v12 does least well is manage speed. It does well with lane changes, though, and I'm still a fan.

I got that email and laughed.
Todays main drive it tried to move into the oncoming traffic and ignored speed limit signs over 50, basically failing in the two main areas they called out.

 

[tmoz]

I did some testing on Texas State Highway 66 where the road is two lane with speed limits of 65 and 70 mph. The car runs the V11 stack here but, like other similar roads, did not pick up on the 65 mph or 70 mph speed limit signs, so needed to roll up the speed to an appropriate level. Earlier in the week I tested on a similar road with 65 mph limit that was ignored by the V11 stack. This time, I had both 65 and 70 mph limits.

These roads used to work correctly on the V11 single stack FSD, so it appears that there is something broken for these type of roads with V12. Hopefully, V12 will expand to cover all roads soon so this will become OBE. Until then, it's a simple matter to up (or down) the speed. Just curious that this bug crept in.

It's in-between a multiaccess highway and a limited access interstate freeway. Which part of the code covers it? It didn't move to the left of the lane when passing semi s, it hates the right lane and will try to move out of it. Doesn't pass a slower moving car and doesn't get out of the left lane when someone approaches from behind. And the worst part is that sometimes it does do those things correctly, but mostly not.

 

[TK211X]

Has anyone had red takeover due to system error or FSD visualizations crash randomly?

 

[Mardak]

Do you find that manual mode doesn’t do this then?

As in manual mode doesn't keep up? Yeah, the specific examples I mentioned were cases where maximum +30% manual offset would have been have been insufficient: 25mph -> 32mph and 30 -> 39, so AUTO's higher +50% offset allows it to go the appropriate speeds that others are going.

I did experience AUTO maintaining 60 in a 45 for a little bit today, so this +33% is another case of it going higher than manual offset, but that might be a special case of exiting the interstate to a local highway.

 

[Dewg]

Well, I tried Chill and had to turn off Auto Set Speed Offset when I was in a 35 zone and the speed was still slowly climbing at 45. When I cancelled Auto, it showed a computed max speed of 52. I assume that's a bug, but I wasn't going to try to tell the police that when I got pulled over. I went back to relying on the posted limit plus 10%, and it did a pretty good job with that. They still need to fix those rocket launches from a standing start, though.

So far I've not experienced the speeding. I even tried Assertive mode, and it only stayed at speed limit unless there were others around me speeding, then it joined them. But in light or no traffic, speed limit or just below. Kinda feel left out.

 

[AudreyHTX1]

I’ve been in Chill the whole time with auto set speed offset off and the car goes (quickly) to the speed limit and stays there.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I noticed the same improvement today with auto max speed.

I have noticed no changes to ASSO behavior. None at all.

As in manual mode doesn't keep up? Yeah, the specific examples I mentioned were cases where maximum +30% manual offset would have been have been insufficient: 25mph -> 32mph and 30 -> 39, so AUTO's higher +50% offset allows it to go the appropriate speeds that others are going.

Ha, I guess I wasn't reading very carefully. Sure, that's going to be an issue and a "difference" which has been made clear, but I would say those situations are probably outliers (apparently not for you). In addition the manual mode allows adjustment, which is crucial. (Also, wouldn't 39mph in a 30mph in manual mode really not be all that bad even with the current setup?).

Along those lines, there's also still an advantage to manual mode, in exactly these misdetection scenarios described above - it happened to me today.

The vehicle detected a 35 mph limit on Mira Mesa in a 50mph zone. Everyone was going 55-60mph. I was in ASSO mode. So I accelerated to 57mph not knowing what was happening, and was immediately met with strong slowdown. ASSO hidden limit of course was 52mph. Looking down, I saw the issue of the 35mph, so switched to manual mode and dialed up. Problem solved (no other way to solve it but to disengage or keep accelerator pressed!).

In the end, with the exception of the set speed offset which is well known, and wherever that has an impact, these modes appear to be identical in their behavior, and still haven't heard an example otherwise.

So manual mode remains a solution with minimal downside who want the vehicle to speed less. You get all the benefits of ASSO mode on city streets.

Today in ASSO mode I saw 52mph in a 50mph, 47mph in a 45mph. A few instances of 47mph in a 50mph. So generally far too slow. And of course there is no way to fix this with manual mode. So this remains a major issue.

I don't really see a solution here except to have different offsets for different types of detected streets, and then have the vehicle actually try to honor the user's preferences. It's nice that the vehicle now doesn't go inappropriately fast in most cases, but it's just so complicated when there are multiple moving pieces - car doesn't detect the right speed, user wants a different speed, conditions dictate another speed, etc.

All I know is overall I'm less happy with it than v11. There are places where it is better (namely by not speeding along inappropriately to try to get to my set speed offset of 16% or whatever on residential or slow streets), but surely there are other solutions to that which don't mean sacrificing the general desire to get to your set speed offset in most other situations.

Chill should be about 5% which is fine for me.

This is only on the freeways.

When I cancelled Auto, it showed a computed max speed of 52.

No it's not a bug. The set speed is 50% over the limit in ASSO mode. (The excessive speed in a detected 35mph zone might be a bug, but that excessive speed is not related to the set speed offset in anyway except that the 52mph limit acts as a cap, keeping the speed DOWN - but this limit does not contribute to the tendency for the vehicle to proceed to that limit speed.) That set speed offset limit is the only difference between it and manual mode, to my knowledge, which you took advantage of by switching to manual mode. (Other than the freeway differences, but that's a different topic 5%/10%/15% determined by driving mode.)

Exactly what I saw tonight, unfortunately I was in a 50mph zone detected as 35mph, so I also had to cancel ASSO, go to manual, and dial up to 60mph. Then I could just kick up the speed to keep up with traffic and wait for the decay without it jamming on the regen to get back to 52mph.

The set speed offset limit is a hard limit and if the car is going over that limit, even with user input, as soon as the input is removed, it will rapidly bring it back (the problem I was having in ASSO mode). However, when the vehicle speed is under the ASSO- or manual-set-speed-offset-determined limit, you can kick it up, and even if its steady state would tend to be slower, it will tend to respect that user input for a "good while."

All super clear and simple. All the new users will be thrilled.

 

[Dennisis]

doesn't get out of the left lane when someone approaches from behind.

Yes I noticed that too, used to work well but broke now no matter how long I wait, gave up on that feature for now .

 

[joelkfla]

First drive with 12.3.3 on my regular camp run.
Some good bits, some scarily bad.
First really bad bit -car decided the it really wanted to be one lane to the left, so it crossed double yellow lines into the oncoming traffic lane. WTF. Immediately took over before it got too far and reengaged only for it to do it again. I stopped it much sooner because this time there was oncoming traffic. Ridiculous that it chose that option on a two lane road with obvious double yellows.
On certain roads it will not see anything faster than a 50mph speed limit sign. It lets me dial up to whatever speed I need but ignores 60, 65, 70 mph signs. So when the limit changes from 65 to 70 then to 60, it just barrels along at the manual set speed.
Not inspiring at all.
Sure it’s more natural but I’d prefer robotic 11.4.9 that at least avoids oncoming traffic thanks.

In instances like that, I would try and get dashcam to capture… you can set it up to record with a. HORN honk, or just tap the screen.. that sort of video would be very useful for FSDb Engineering.

Or voice command "Save video".

 

[swedge]

I am a long term FSD tester, 12.3.3 at this point, fully paid up when we bought in 2020. My wife, however, is not yet ready for FSD, so in her profile she never selected FSD. She often single pulls for TACC because that is what she is comfortable with. Untill today. She single pulled and FSD engaged. She noticed!

I checked her profile, and sure enough, FSD was selected. Not by her. So I deselected it. Then the email arrived: "Welcome to the Future of Driving". Tesla foisted FSD on a driver who had specifically chosen NOT to use FSD. And who had not seen or agreed to FSD.

Not a big deal for us, as she is well aware of my FSD beta testing, and is nearly ready to try it out for herself. But Tesla turned it on for her profile without her permission or her agreement. Not OK!

When we first got the Model Y, it took both of us a while to get comfortable with AutoPilot. As an actual pilot (instrument rated) I read the manual cover to cover before driving the car, and both of us incrementally learned what Tesla's AutoPilot did and did not do, and we became comfortable with it. It took time and experience. My wife still prefers TACC over lane keeping in some circumstances. My point is that these advanced driver assistance features require that us human drivers understand them, and over time learn how to use and trust them, and also learn when to and when not to use them. Simply turning them on without notification is NOT OK.

No harm done in our case, but other FSD users should advise the drivers of their cars to check the AutoPilot settings in their profiles to be sure they are correct, and not changed surreptitiously by Tesla as a part of an update.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I checked her profile, and sure enough, FSD was selected. Not by her. So I deselected it. Then the email arrived: "Welcome to the Future of Driving". Tesla foisted FSD on a driver who had specifically chosen NOT to use FSD. And who had not seen or agreed to FSD.

Seems a bit odd. Tesla's video shows that there are waivers you have to click on to get it enabled. How did this work?

 

[sleepydoc]

In instances like that, I would try and get dashcam to capture… you can set it up to record with a. HORN honk, or just tap the screen.. that sort of video would be very useful for FSDb Engineering.

You can also press the button and say “record a clip “

 

[DBeckwith]

I am a long term FSD tester, 12.3.3 at this point, fully paid up when we bought in 2020. My wife, however, is not yet ready for FSD, so in her profile she never selected FSD. She often single pulls for TACC because that is what she is comfortable with. Untill today. She single pulled and FSD engaged. She noticed!

I checked her profile, and sure enough, FSD was selected. Not by her. So I deselected it. Then the email arrived: "Welcome to the Future of Driving". Tesla foisted FSD on a driver who had specifically chosen NOT to use FSD. And who had not seen or agreed to FSD.

Not a big deal for us, as she is well aware of my FSD beta testing, and is nearly ready to try it out for herself. But Tesla turned it on for her profile without her permission or her agreement. Not OK!

When we first got the Model Y, it took both of us a while to get comfortable with AutoPilot. As an actual pilot (instrument rated) I read the manual cover to cover before driving the car, and both of us incrementally learned what Tesla's AutoPilot did and did not do, and we became comfortable with it. It took time and experience. My wife still prefers TACC over lane keeping in some circumstances. My point is that these advanced driver assistance features require that us human drivers understand them, and over time learn how to use and trust them, and also learn when to and when not to use them. Simply turning them on without notification is NOT OK.

No harm done in our case, but other FSD users should advise the drivers of their cars to check the AutoPilot settings in their profiles to be sure they are correct, and not changed surreptitiously by Tesla as a part of an update.

My wife said it was automatically turned on in her profile also.

 

[JulienW]

Cruelty: Got a Tesla email last night saying "Download Complete FSDS". Of course I knew that wasn't correct since I don't have WiFi. Got up at 4:45 this morning so I could park near the elevator to get connected to the Lobby WiFi. Get in car and see this. What a lie Tesla. I connected to WiFi anyway just to see and an hour ½ later no downloading. Guess everyone got this email last night.