Model 3 - Comparison to BMW 3 Series Pricing...

[AWDtsla]

2016 328i
2016 BMW 328i Automatic - Instrumented Test

0-60mph 5.2s
1/4 mile 13.9@99mph

easily match the numbers of AWD 70D

2015 Tesla Model S 70D - Instrumented Test

those who thinks 70d is fast clearly never owned any decent cars

That's what you get for paper racing cars.

In real life the 70D is faster. Because it has immediate response, high traction, completely silent, and very very repeatable.

You know what would happen if I put down 600+hp to the ground at every single light and stop-sign in any other car besides my Model S? Phone calls to the police and exhibition of speed tickets, probably an impounded car and jailtime. What actually happens? Nothing.

 

[zer0cool]

Oh the 70D is fast and I have driven many fast cars and have owned 3 new BMWs in the last 3 years. The reason is because you can't look at the 0-60 on these tests for gas cars. In real life, you will NEVER get anywhere close to that. You need to have a perfect launch under perfect conditions. For BMW, you need to be on the perfect road surface, have warm tires, switch to sport +, turn off ESC, then step on break and gas together, then it revs to something like 3000 rpm, then when you see a light go on, release the break and hope there's no tire slip (which happens most of the time). Let me tell you, there are lots of comments and lots of reviews. Most reviewers can't even get that right, let alone regular drivers.

For everyday performance, you need to look at 5-60 times, which for many modern cars is like 1 second slower than 0-60 launch. This is the actual stop light performance you can actually get, without having to go through that complicated process above. Also for passing speed, look at 30-50 and 50-70. These three numbers together are much better and telling you quick a car will feel in real life.

Compared to a BMW or any other gas car, a Model S has perfect launch pretty much every time, and there's no need for all that preparation, just step and go. Thus 0-60 is the same as 5-60 pretty much.

Let me tell you, the 70D feels much quicker than 328i under all normal driving conditions. I personally feel the 70D feels very similar to a 550i in everyday acceleration. The 90D is at M3/M5 level (actually superior in 0 acceleration and in 30-50 passing) in all legal speeds.

 

[BMW ///M3]

paper racing? LOL
car and driver tests each car exactly the same way for over 40 years.

try again...

 

[zer0cool]

Also Model S should be compared with say the 6 series anyways, and if so pricing and performance match up pretty well.

I think the Model 3 pricing and performance will match up with BMW really well too. Base with 328, mid with 340, and high with M3, and prices will be very similar as well. So base avg 42k, mid avg 55k, and high avg 72k.

 

[GaryREM]

2016 328i
2016 BMW 328i Automatic - Instrumented Test

0-60mph 5.2s
1/4 mile 13.9@99mph

easily match the numbers of AWD 70D

2015 Tesla Model S 70D - Instrumented Test

those who thinks 70d is fast clearly never owned any decent cars

Sigh. The point was an S 70D which is much larger and heavier is that fast. A 70D Model 3 would be smaller and lighter, so should be faster.

And look at rolling start times, 30-50 and 50-70 times for an S 70D from those tests. The Model 3 should do that with a 70kwh battery.

 

[stopcrazypp]

paper racing? LOL
car and driver tests each car exactly the same way for over 40 years.

try again...

Paper racing refers to comparing specs from two different magazine tests (in this case at least it was the same magazine, but many times it is from different ones), as opposed to one test where they were compared next to each other or a race in the real world (drag strip for example).

 

[AndreSF]

Let me tell you, the 70D feels much quicker than 328i under all normal driving conditions. I personally feel the 70D feels very similar to a 550i in everyday acceleration. The 90D is at M3/M5 level (actually superior in 0 acceleration and in 30-50 passing) in all legal speeds.

Quicker indeed, but 70D or even P90D would not beat BMW 3er in handling. Not a fair comparison either, would need to compare 70D with 535i xdrive IMO.

 

[AWDtsla]

paper racing? LOL
car and driver tests each car exactly the same way for over 40 years.

try again...

Still missing the point. Have you test driven these cars? I suggest you do.

 

[AWDtsla]

Quicker indeed, but 70D or even P90D would not beat BMW 3er in handling.

M3 no, 3 series yes, 5 series definitely yes.

 

[pinski]

Does anybody know what spec of Model S was in this video?

 

[AWDtsla]

Does anybody know what spec of Model S was in this video?

2012? P85 maximum. P90D is a rocketship compared to that thing. 90D is also faster.

 

[ZachF]

2016 328i
2016 BMW 328i Automatic - Instrumented Test

0-60mph 5.2s
1/4 mile 13.9@99mph

easily match the numbers of AWD 70D

2015 Tesla Model S 70D - Instrumented Test

those who thinks 70d is fast clearly never owned any decent cars

lol the 'as tested' price of that BMW 328i was $55,000 including several sports packages. Also bet it loses over half it's value before year 3 is up....

 

[AndreSF]

M3 no, 3 series yes, 5 series definitely yes.

Dunno if I agree that 70D can corner better than 328i or 335i... I've had four 3ers in the last 12 years (not M3s ), and you can corner as fast as you possible want in 3er. Have a MS70 now and drove D variant several times before made my decision. IMHO 70 or 70D can't handle switchbacks as aggressively as BMW 3er can.
Also, If acceleration is the only aspect being judged, sure MS is super quick. But as far as maintaining high speed over long periods of time, let's say "autobahn" speed level of 130mph+ for a while, MS might not do so well in such test IMO.

 

[graphix25]

Since Tesla has indicated the Model 3 will compete with cars like the BMW 3 series and Audi A4 series and since it looks like there will be RWD, AWD, performance, etc. version of the Model 3 (just like the BMW and Audis), here is a picture of what BMW's pricing looks like:

Model-----------Base Price-----Loaded Price
320i-------------------$33,150-----------$47,970
320ixDrive---------$35,150
328i-------------------$38,350
328i xDrive--------$40,350
328d------------------$39,850
328d xDrive-------$41,850
330e------------------$43,700
340i-------------------$45,800
340i xDrive---------$47,800------------$63,145

328i xDrive Wagon----$42,650
328d xDrive Wagon---$44,150
328i xDrive GT---------$43,000
335i xDrive GT---------$49,200

M3--------------------$63,500--------------$77,995

Apologies for the formatting, but you get the idea. I would not be at all surprised to see Tesla's pricing range be very similar. Man though, BMW has a ton of friggin' variations on the three series!

340i xDrive---------$47,800------------$63,145
M3--------------------$63,500--------------$77,995

My budget is 55-60k before taxes or incentives which would put me in line for a big battery, AWD loaded model or the 340i xDrive equivalency. My big question is will the PxxD come in at below $63.5k. If it's more like 55-58k then i will have difficult choice. Do i go with a limited option P or loaded standard D big battery. Decisions, decisions...

I have a 335i xDriver 2015 today under lease. A good solid mid sized luxury car but to be honest it's nothing special and dime a dozen. The car is pretty darn boring to look at and drive despite that marvelous straight six, twin turbo charged engine. It handles like a big over dampen luxury sedan. Seats are more like couches then sports oriented leathers. I often loose my car in parking lots because it looks like every other car and it doesn't help i got it in Mineral Gray.

My Model 3 is going to be red, unique and beautiful. Never going to buy and ICE again..

 

[AWDtsla]

But as far as maintaining high speed over long periods of time, let's say "autobahn" speed level of 130mph+ for a while, MS might not do so well in such test IMO.

Which is completely unrealistic for anyone but Germans, and we're back to paper racing now. I drove a M3 in Germany and then for 5 years in the US, I can clearly say all that handling/top speed/magazine 0-60 times are completely irrelevant for street driving. The M3 was so slow out of turning standing starts and in the cold and in the rain and anytime there might be a cop within earshot. If you want to actually drive quickly, the a 90D would be superior in almost every circumstance except for those 5 seconds out of every drive when you're on a fast onramp, or you've decided to street race somebody to 150 mph.

 

[raysspl]

German cars are shop queens after about 60k miles.

so true

 

[AndreSF]

Which is completely unrealistic for anyone but Germans, and we're back to paper racing now. I drove a M3 in Germany and then for 5 years in the US, I can clearly say all that handling/top speed/magazine 0-60 times are completely irrelevant for street driving. The M3 was so slow out of turning standing starts and in the cold and in the rain and anytime there might be a cop within earshot. If you want to actually drive quickly, the a 90D would be superior in almost every circumstance except for those 5 seconds out of every drive when you're on a fast onramp, or you've decided to street race somebody to 150 mph.

I don't disagree with you that MS is superior in so many ways, and that is why I drive a MS now I did 2 European Deliveries with BMW, hit speed limiter several times on autobahn in both 3er I bought this way, but obviously, that was it as far as going really fast on autobahn. BMW is definitely going to be in trouble with their 3er if Model3 is delivered with promised capabilities and at the promised price point (i3 is cute, but no competitor to M3).
My wife placed an order for M3 at 7:38PM Pacific on Thu to trade in her BMW 535i in a couple of years, so I think some 5er customers will also become Model3 drivers.

 

[StephenM]

I worked at BMW before so I have a little experience driving many of the models and did a couple of employee leases as well. I can say unequivocally that you are comparing apples to oranges here, because electric drive is so vastly superior for road use. Track use is another thing entirely as you can't go flat out in a Tesla for too long so maybe some SCCA races but I digress. The silent and instantaneous speed of a Tesla will eat up the 3-series at stop-light contests, this you can be sure of.

 

[dmode]

Having owned 3 BMWs, I can say that Tesla Model 3 will be vastly superior the overrated 3 series in every possible way. 320i does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds and BMW markets that as a performance sedan. Besides, the base model 328 is so basic, that until the F30, it used to come without even a screen. The iDrive system is a complete joke and I actually just my smartphone for any sort of entertainment while driving. And let's not get into the reliability issues. My 335 was in shop every other day - HPFP failures, brakes squeaking, iDrive malfunction, you name it.

 

[Snowdog]

2016 328i
2016 BMW 328i Automatic - Instrumented Test

0-60mph 5.2s
1/4 mile 13.9@99mph

easily match the numbers of AWD 70D

2015 Tesla Model S 70D - Instrumented Test

those who thinks 70d is fast clearly never owned any decent cars

Thanks for the links.

C&D is my favorite source because they have much more useful measure for street driving. Rolling start 5-60. It isn't like you will do high RPM clutch dumps or launch control when street driving.Those are pretty much drag racing only.

In the real world the Tesla 70d has a significant performance advantage(from the links you provided):
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.3 sec (328)
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec (70d)