Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

[Exelion]

That's cool if they do it by expanding and adding ccs1 stations. If they were to do that and make an adapter available it would be a win all around.

I didn't think of that being a possibility but that certainly is one. Tesla could simply add ONE CCS1 charging station to each supercharger and therefore, satisfy the requirement of availability to *everyone*. Volkswagon already does that with CHAdeMO (even though, going forward, new stations won't have that plug).

 

[jsight]

I didn't think of that being a possibility but that certainly is one. Tesla could simply add ONE CCS1 charging station to each supercharger and therefore, satisfy the requirement of availability to *everyone*. Volkswagon already does that with CHAdeMO (even though, going forward, new stations won't have that plug).

I hate that EA does that, so I really hope Tesla doesn't do it either. The sole CHAdeMO at the station here sometimes has a line too.

 

[pb2000]

I didn't think of that being a possibility but that certainly is one. Tesla could simply add ONE CCS1 charging station to each supercharger and therefore, satisfy the requirement of availability to *everyone*. Volkswagon already does that with CHAdeMO (even though, going forward, new stations won't have that plug).

They partnered with Flo in Canada to get government grants, so there are a bunch of stations going in with 8(or 6) supercharging stalls and 3(2) completely seperate CCS/Chademo stations. The idea though is to have integration with the superchargers, not just having collocated facilities, so that means an adapter or a similar setup to Europe, where stations have the Tesla plug and the CCS2 plug on the same stall.

 

[Exelion]

They partnered with Flo in Canada to get government grants, so there are a bunch of stations going in with 8(or 6) supercharging stalls and 3(2) completely separate CCS/Chademo stations.

See, that sounds like something Tesla would rather do than adapting other cars into their charging stations.

*Separate, but Equal*

This is going to get interesting, to say the least.

 

[scottf200]

They partnered with Flo in Canada to get government grants, so there are a bunch of stations going in with 8(or 6) supercharging stalls and 3(2) completely seperate CCS/Chademo stations. The idea though is to have integration with the superchargers, not just having collocated facilities, so that means an adapter or a similar setup to Europe, where stations have the Tesla plug and the CCS2 plug on the same stall.

Jasper manicpal doc post: Supercharger - Jasper, AB

Section:

Picture from the Jasper AB thread:

 

[Reddy_KW]

Jasper manicpal doc post: Supercharger - Jasper, AB

Section:

Picture from the Jasper AB thread:

So does that mean we will be able to drive through Canada to Alaska in an EV in the future?

 

[Webeevdrivers]

So does that mean we will be able to drive through Canada to Alaska in an EV in the future?

No doubt. The build out headed north is continuing and I think you will see a passage within 3 years to Yukon territory.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Jasper manicpal doc post: Supercharger - Jasper, AB

Section:

Picture from the Jasper AB thread:

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I think most if not all the recent supercharger installations include 25 percent chademo/CCS. In Vernon they just finished a 12 station V3 and 4 station FLO location. We are just waiting for BC hydro to put in their transformer and hook us up around mid september. I think there are at least 6 other locations like this either in process or already completed.

Here is a pic of Vernon. Notice the last 4 FLO stations.

Close up. All 16 chargers installed by Tesla...in three weeks, dawn to dusk, 7 days a week including one long weekend.

 

[chinney]

Cool - I was not aware that Tesla was partnering with flo to do that. That must be quite new - I have not seen that set up in any of the (admittedly few) Supercharger locations that I have visited so far, but presumably I eventually will.

If that is going to be the way that Tesla Superchargers are extended to include CCS and the way that Tesla helps build out its network, I say great.

It would be nice, in return, if the main flo stations, and those of other Level 3 providers, would allow for 2-4 Tesla stalls at each of their locations. That would essentially avoid the need for any adapter.

 

[bobby g]

I think most if not all the recent supercharger installations include 25 percent chademo/CCS. In Vernon they just finished a 12 station V3 and 4 station FLO location. We are just waiting for BC hydro to put in their transformer and hook us up around mid september. I think there are at least 6 other locations like this either in process or already completed.

Here is a pic of Vernon. Notice the last 4 FLO stations.

Close up. All 16 chargers installed by Tesla...in three weeks, dawn to dusk, 7 days a week including one long weekend.

Given that approach, I'm all for it. It is a win all around. The adapter would still be nice, options are nice, but certainly not needed.

So well done Tesla. I hadn't seen any sc's like that. The newest I've seen was in Brea, CA and it was next to an EA site, so no need to add ccs1 or chademo

 

[e of pi]

One weakness of that install approach, at least as long as there isn't a supported Tesla CCS adapter, is that those stalls might as well not exist for actual tesla drivers. Imagine pulling into a station with a quarter or a third of the stalls empty...but it's all the CCS stalls. It's great for a person like me who drives a CCS car, since it means even more open stalls and choice for where to charge, but it's lousy for a Tesla owner until there's a working (preferably official, given Setec's issues with Tesla software updates?) adapter.

If they had a dual Tesla/CCS pedestal (though this would require some additional development), they could have the additional four stations open as a station like that open for existing Teslas to use without any additional car-side hardware, but still support the CCS requirements for some new sites and funding mechanisms. That'd at least be as good for their nominal customers as for CCS people like me coming in to use the station. I think they really need to figure out to what degree they're supporting CCS as a gesture at compliance to try to avoid being forced to break the walled garden of their proprietary standard (or to try to avoid state, local, or federal money going to purely non-Tesla chargers, again due to their reluctance to put out any higher-power adapters or third-party stall builders), versus actually supporting what's becoming the common standard for other makes.

 

[pb2000]

Cool - I was not aware that Tesla was partnering with flo to do that. That must be quite new - I have not seen that set up in any of the (admittedly few) Supercharger locations that I have visited so far, but presumably I eventually will.

If that is going to be the way that Tesla Superchargers are extended to include CCS and the way that Tesla helps build out its network, I say great.

It would be nice, in return, if the main flo stations, and those of other Level 3 providers, would allow for 2-4 Tesla stalls at each of their locations. That would essentially avoid the need for any adapter.

The government grant that these stations are being built under required 25% of stations to have both CCS and CHAdeMO plugs, so this is very much a marriage of convivence. I'm not sure if there is going to be another round of grants, but if Tesla is working on a dual plug stall, I suspect they would much prefer to use that.

 

[MP3Mike]

The government grant that these stations are being built under required 25% of stations to have both CCS and CHAdeMO plugs, so this is very much a marriage of convivence. I'm not sure if there is going to be another round of grants, but if Tesla is working on a dual plug stall, I suspect they would much prefer to use that.

Well it would have to be a triple plug stall to meet the requirements wouldn't it? (Tesla, CCS, and CHAdeMO.)

If they could go with just Tesla and CCS I could see Tesla making it themselves. (They already, or will soon, support CCS in Europe, but I doubt they have any plans to have CHAdeMO chargers.)

I would expect that it is possible that they will put dual plug, CCS/Tesla, stalls in the US if that gets them the subsidy money that is coming available. (They've already done dual plug stalls in Europe, so they would just have to develop the V3 version of those stalls.) Of course there is the upcoming Californian requirement of having a display, and I think payment method, attached to the stall, so who knows what will happen there.

 

[Rocky_H]

I think they really need to figure out to what degree they're supporting CCS as a gesture at compliance to try to avoid being forced to break the walled garden of their proprietary standard (or to try to avoid state, local, or federal money going to purely non-Tesla chargers, again due to their reluctance to put out any higher-power adapters or third-party stall builders), versus actually supporting what's becoming the common standard for other makes.

This seems like a really good solution to me though, because it does enable people to use real charge cables for both types. Any kind of using extra attachable adapters for high speed charging in any direction is more connection points and more risky and always undesirable. This is better to avoid making people do that.

 

[pb2000]

Well it would have to be a triple plug stall to meet the requirements wouldn't it? (Tesla, CCS, and CHAdeMO.)

3 plugs would get a bit messy, but you could have some dual CCS stalls and some dual CHAdeMO stalls. Now that CHAdeMO is on the way out, hopefully they ease the requirements a bit on that.

 

[e of pi]

This seems like a really good solution to me though, because it does enable people to use real charge cables for both types. Any kind of using extra attachable adapters for high speed charging in any direction is more connection points and more risky and always undesirable. This is better to avoid making people do that.

It's better than nothing, but it's much less better (especially for actual Tesla owners!) than simply having two-plug stations with both Tesla and CCS or Tesla and Chademo plugs, which would also allow real charge cables for both types, but would leave the stations open for Tesla users when heretics like myself weren't using them.

 

[jrobillard]

This issues should be solved soon, thats all I can say for now.

Any update on this? I really don't want to go buy a Chademo adapter...

 

[Big Earl]

I didn't think of that being a possibility but that certainly is one. Tesla could simply add ONE CCS1 charging station to each supercharger and therefore, satisfy the requirement of availability to *everyone*. Volkswagon already does that with CHAdeMO (even though, going forward, new stations won't have that plug).

There is no requirement that Superchargers in the US be open to everyone. The language in the (proposed?) bill says open to “at least one” manufacturer. Canada is different (see post below) and Tesla is including third party charging stations in their projects that are receiving government funding.

I think Tesla will stick with their proprietary connector in the US. They will make an adapter and an app for drivers of CCS vehicles to plug in. The adapter and app are how Tesla will bill for the service, removing the non-Tesla car and it’s manufacturer from the charging equation and allowing the vehicle owner to deal with Tesla directly. I could be wrong about how this plays out… Tesla could end up doing extensive overhauls to the network, but that wouldn’t strike me as following a first principles approach that Elon is known for.

 

[Xelloss99]

The government grant that these stations are being built under required 25% of stations to have both CCS and CHAdeMO plugs, so this is very much a marriage of convivence. I'm not sure if there is going to be another round of grants, but if Tesla is working on a dual plug stall, I suspect they would much prefer to use that.

Well it would have to be a triple plug stall to meet the requirements wouldn't it? (Tesla, CCS, and CHAdeMO.)

If they could go with just Tesla and CCS I could see Tesla making it themselves. (They already, or will soon, support CCS in Europe, but I doubt they have any plans to have CHAdeMO chargers.)

I would expect that it is possible that they will put dual plug, CCS/Tesla, stalls in the US if that gets them the subsidy money that is coming available. (They've already done dual plug stalls in Europe, so they would just have to develop the V3 version of those stalls.) Of course there is the upcoming Californian requirement of having a display, and I think payment method, attached to the stall, so who knows what will happen there.

Note that there are details in clickable links below.

The Canadian Flo/Tesla chargers were done in two different Natural Resources Canada programs.

Most of them were done under the Electric Vehicle and Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Deployment Initiative. This has been closed for a while.

There are 14 Tesla sites under this program. The first to be fully commissioned was Salmon Arm, which was open for about a week now including the Flo chargers, but Jasper and Vernon are mentioned in this thread. Jasper was likely the reason that Tesla went this way in the first place, as this is in a national park, and the municipal government would only allow them to install Superchargers if they also installed CCS and CHAdeMO chargers.

This program was quite generous and allows for up to 75% of the stalls to have "proprietary" connectors, and of the "generic" stalls, there must be at least one CCS and one CHAdeMO connector (this would allow an "Electrify Canada|Electrify America" configuration with one CHAdeMO and the rest CCS, although Electrify Canada didn't seem to actually use this program)

From the program:

Electric Vehicle Fast Chargers: Any electric vehicle fast charger commercially available and certified for use in Canada. The charger must be a direct current fast charger (DCFC) rated for a minimum of 50 kW power output with at least one (1) charge connector that is CHAdeMO compliant and one (1) charge connector that is SAECombo (CCS) compliant or be a proprietary connector type.*
...
* Other proprietary connector types may represent a maximum of 75% of all charging connectors installed at the same project site. The remaining balance (25% or more) must be universal charging connectors (J1772, J1772 Combo, and CHAdeMO) of the same category (i.e. Level 2 or fast charger).

There was another program, the Zero Emission Vehicle Infrastructure Program. This is closing today (September 8 2021).

While the exact sites were not specified, Tesla had funding for 27 electric vehicle chargers under ZP-059. This can be deduced to be three sites, each with 8 Superchargers and 1 Flo CCS/CHAdeMO charger in Cache Creek, Williams Lake, and Quesnel. Note Cache Creek already had a Pre-Existing BC Hydro (light blue) Flo charger on the lot, the Tesla supplied one is the dark blue one in the right side of the photo on the link.

The exact conditions are not publicly searchable. But in these cases there were 8 Tesla Superchargers and one Flo CCS/CHAdeMO charger installed per site, so it appears that this program required one "universal" charger per site rather than a specified percentage.

In any case Tesla did what they needed to satisfy the funding requirements. Because the Electric Vehicle and Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Deployment Initiative closed over a year ago, they likely didn't have any opportunity to modify their Superchargers directly, hence went with the Flo turnkey system using AddEnergie SmartDC for the generic chargers (Flo is a division of AddEnergie).
If dual-head Superchargers were available, they could have satisfied the funding with one Flo station, the remainder of the 25% with dual-head Supercharger/CCS, and 75% Supercharger only (for example, on a 16 stall site such as Vernon, 12 stalls Supercharger only, 3 dual head Supercharger/CCS, and 1 Flo CCS/CHAdeMO charger, compared to the 12 stalls of Superchargers and 4 stalls of Flo CCS/CHAdeMO that are actually installed for this site).

What they need to do for the US funding will entirely depend on what the wording of the legislation will be.
Given that the Electrify America network is probably the biggest non-Tesla network and that they are abandoning CHAdeMO, likely the legislation will probably only require CCS. I doubt that there would be any provisions for a percentage of "proprietary only" connectors like the NRCan wording, and I doubt that Elon's idea of a Tesla connector with available adaptor would fly either, but a dual-head Supercharger/CCS would probably qualify for funding.