Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live

[DiamondDave]

Hello everyone! First post, though I've been lurking here a lot, and I've read through this entire thread.

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell whether a given vehicle has an A-pack or B-pack battery? I know some early owners had battery packs swapped under warranty and that there was some overlap in VINs where the original battery pack could be A or B depending on the luck of the original owner. So even an early Signature could have a B-pack while a VIN as high as P09xxx could have an A-pack.

Thanks!

 

[dhanson865]

Hello everyone! First post, though I've been lurking here a lot, and I've read through this entire thread.

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell whether a given vehicle has an A-pack or B-pack battery? I know some early owners had battery packs swapped under warranty and that there was some overlap in VINs where the original battery pack could be A or B depending on the luck of the original owner. So even an early Signature could have a B-pack while a VIN as high as P09xxx could have an A-pack.

Thanks!

Well if it has a 70 kWh battery or 60 kWh battery it won't be A or B that you care about*
If it has an 85 kWh battery and either dual motors, autopilot features, or parking sensors it won't be A or B
If it is a 2014 or newer it won't be A or B.

Take a look at Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum for some examples but I don't think you'll care if it has a B, D, E, F, etcetera as long as it isn't A.

* the supercharging rate issue only applies to the A pack on the original S85 and variants. The 60 pack with A revision is newer and doesn't slow down supercharging like the original pack. The 70 pack with A revision is newer than that and supercharges even faster.

 

[DiamondDave]

Thanks. I'm specifically looking for a P85, hopefully priced in the $60s, which seems so much more appealing to me than stretching for a 70 because I love performance.

The few P85s that I see below $70k frequently have a VIN that makes the A-pack a possibility. I'm especially suspicious of the few I've seen in the lower $60s. I would ask a Tesla rep before pulling the trigger on one but as quickly as the good ones seem to get snatched up I was hoping there was a way I could infer something online.

 

[Cyclone]

Hello everyone! First post, though I've been lurking here a lot, and I've read through this entire thread.

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell whether a given vehicle has an A-pack or B-pack battery? I know some early owners had battery packs swapped under warranty and that there was some overlap in VINs where the original battery pack could be A or B depending on the luck of the original owner. So even an early Signature could have a B-pack while a VIN as high as P09xxx could have an A-pack.

Thanks!

Absent physically checking, I don't know. Mine is a B. Turn the steering wheel completely counter-clockwise, then look into the passenger front wheel well. It may be easier to use your phone to snap a picture back there and then read the photo. Overall, I dhanson basically alludes to above, I wouldn't worry about what version the car may have in all honestly.

 

[ModelSFL]

What's an A vs B battery represent?

 

[Drucifer]

B is newer tech and charges faster at the supercharger than A. Since I will only supercharge 10-20 times a year, Saving maybe 2 hours annually just didn't seem like such a big deal, so I didn't care about what pack I got. If I was on the road all the time, that might change.

"For 85kWh, the highest reported A battery VIN is mine, 9331. However there were mixed A and B deliveries before then. After 9448, all batteries were B or higher. You can check this table for more details: Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum "

Summary of A vs B battery issue?

 

[ModelSFL]

B is newer tech and charges faster at the supercharger than A. Since I will only supercharge 10-20 times a year, Saving maybe 2 hours annually just didn't seem like such a big deal, so I didn't care about what pack I got. If I was on the road all the time, that might change.

"For 85kWh, the highest reported A battery VIN is mine, 9331. However there were mixed A and B deliveries before then. After 9448, all batteries were B or higher. You can check this table for more details: Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum "

Summary of A vs B battery issue?

When people say that the 85s charge faster than the 60s is that true or is it possible they are just different revisions?

 

[BoerumHill]

When people say that the 85s charge faster than the 60s is that true or is it possible they are just different revisions?

Have you ever watched Björn Nyland's video comparing the two? It's almost twice as fast.

Here's an analysis with graphs of Björn's test:

Supercharging Tesla Model S 60 kWh Versus 85 kWh - Video + Graphs

 

[SmartElectric]

50k is the top of my budget, and I am buying as a family car (obviously) for the safety reasons + all the added benefits that you all know. What do you all think my chances are of getting in a MS sometime soon? I'm one of many lurking and waiting to see what CPOs pop up with the X release.

Best plan of attack is to go to:
http://ev-cpo.com/

Sign up for a premium subscription :

quote : "Set up custom Alerts for specific configurations using any of 23 different options/criteriaCustom Alerts are sent out immediatly upon the CPO Consolidator finding any car matching your criteria [coming very soon]"

This way, you get an email when the car matching your criteria comes up on the entire Tesla CPO site nationwide.

A fellow forum member made this service and it was used very successfully by me (got my S85 at midnight before anyone else saw the sweet deal that it was) and others here. I found working through a Tesla sales person ineffective as the tools they have available are worse than the ev- CPO site I point to above.

- - - Updated - - -

The lowest price S85 I have record of sold for $55,300.

You mean the lowest price in the US, not necessarily in US dollars (with exchange)! |-)

- - - Updated - - -

I meant s85d s70d but yes more widely available p85ds. Also us Canadians can't import

Recently purchased a CPO S85 here in Toronto, price was too good not to jump on it now. Wife loves it, and is willing to live without AWD, even though we are coming from a Mercedes GLK that was a great winter car. The AWD would be fantastic for added traction and cornering, but doesn't help on braking...so we plan to get high quality winter tires.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Have you ever watched Björn Nyland's video comparing the two? It's almost twice as fast.

Here's an analysis with graphs of Björn's test:

Supercharging Tesla Model S 60 kWh Versus 85 kWh - Video + Graphs

That was an old test. The 60Kwh can max out at 105Kw now. While in the video the 60 only max out at 85kw input power. Other videos have proven this video wrong.

 

[SmartElectric]

Does anyone know if there is a way to tell whether a given vehicle has an A-pack or B-pack battery?

As you can see from my sig below, we have an early 2013 CPO S85 that has the A pack.

I once thought as you do, that the difference in pack would affect my purchase decision. Don't believe all the concern/hype/talk on this subject. I was concerned about range and charge speed judging by posts made in this site.

Reality : We did a 20 hour road trip from Toronto <-> NY (and back) without any issues, in our first week of ownership!

Reality : The battery degradation matches the average on the curve posted elsewhere here for a car two years old with 35000 miles on it. Meaning, a 90% charge gets well more than 200 real world miles at speed limit + 15%.

The A pack in our car charges at 90kW for the first 15 minutes of the charge (which is 75x faster than my Smart ED charges) and when we needed to charge more than 30 minutes to get to a 90% (or more) charge, we had something to do. Turns out you need to stop every 3 hours or 230+ miles for a break, so we would fully charge to 100% when eating, or charge to 90% when we only needed a bio break.

See my road trip report in the Canada sub-forum.

We've done 2000 miles and used 15 superchargers in our first month in the car.

Nothing to worry about based on my experience.

 

[ModelSFL]

That was an old test. The 60Kwh can max out at 105Kw now. While in the video the 60 only max out at 85kw input power. Other videos have proven this video wrong.

What do the 85s max out at?

 

[Musterion]

"For 85kWh, the highest reported A battery VIN is mine, 9331. However there were mixed A and B deliveries before then. After 9448, all batteries were B or higher. You can check this table for more details: Battery table - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum "

Summary of A vs B battery issue?

That's my quote . I always check all the sub-10k cars I come across in the Bay Area (with their owners) and I still win the prize.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

What do the 85s max out at?

120Kw. Some people claimed 135kw, but i have yet to see proof of it.

 

[ModelSFL]

120Kw. Some people claimed 135kw, but i have yet to see proof of it.

Interesting, so the 85s do charge 20% or so faster? Is it hardware or software that allows it?

 

[Bifff67]

When you go to a supercharger, nose around the big white boxes and if can find a hole in the fence take a picture of the label on the systems. Enlarge it and read it. All the ones I have seen here mid-East coast are rated at 120KW on the label. i have heard they have 135KW . But the only way you will get 135 is if the SC is rated to provide it. Is there a list anywhere of where 135's might live?

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Interesting, so the 85s do charge 20% or so faster? Is it hardware or software that allows it?

The 85s can charge faster because of the higher voltage. The amps stay the same. No software or hardware changes. Only the battery voltage changes.

Keep in mind the tapering. Both the 60s and the 70s have the same voltage, but because the 70s have more capacity, the tapering occurs later effectively making the 70s charge faster than the 60s.

 

[dhanson865]

When people say that the 85s charge faster than the 60s is that true or is it possible they are just different revisions?

The old limits were

Some can charge at 90 KW (85 KWh A battery pack, near 1.06C charge rate)
some can charge at 105 KW (60 KWh with older battery pack, 1.75C charge rate)
some can charge at 111 KW (60 KWh with newer battery pack, 1.85C charge rate)
some can charge at 120 KW (85 KWh B or D battery pack, near 1.41C charge rate)


Don't know if the S70D is sharing the 111 KW or the 120 KW limit or if it has it's own.

provisional S70D limit possibilities

111 KW (70 KWh, 1.59C charge rate)
120 KW (70 KWh, 1.71C charge rate)
129 KW (70 KWh, 1.85C charge rate)


but it is clear that on a 120KW charger the S85 will charge faster than an S60 so long as the 85 has a B or higher rev pack.

You can see a list of supercharger types at North - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum. I think there are only a couple of 90KW Superchargers left, so if you aren't at one of those it's hands down faster charging for a modern S85.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

The old limits were

Some can charge at 90 KW (85 KWh A battery pack, near 1.06C charge rate)
some can charge at 105 KW (60 KWh with older battery pack, 1.75C charge rate)
some can charge at 111 KW (60 KWh with newer battery pack, 1.85C charge rate)
some can charge at 120 KW (85 KWh B or D battery pack, near 1.41C charge rate)


Don't know if the S70D is sharing the 111 KW or the 120 KW limit or if it has it's own.

provisional S70D limit possibilities

111 KW (70 KWh, 1.59C charge rate)
120 KW (70 KWh, 1.71C charge rate)
129 KW (70 KWh, 1.85C charge rate)


but it is clear that on a 120KW charger the S85 will charge faster than an S60 so long as the 85 has a B or higher rev pack.

You can see a list of supercharger types at North - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum. I think there are only a couple of 90KW Superchargers left, so if you aren't at one of those it's hands down faster charging for a modern S85.

IT would not be possible for the 70KWh to do 129KW... at least not now.

It seems to me like the the 111KW on the 60KWh might be due to them being at one of those 135KW stations which are essentially higher current version of the 120KW stations. Since the 70KWh share the same voltage, they will ALWAYS share the same max charging rate, but just taper later during the charge. So 129KW charging is not possible unless tesla release a higher current capable charging station. i.e. 150KW stations.

 

[dhanson865]

IT would not be possible for the 70KWh to do 129KW... at least not now.

It seems to me like the the 111KW on the 60KWh might be due to them being at one of those 135KW stations which are essentially higher current version of the 120KW stations. Since the 70KWh share the same voltage, they will ALWAYS share the same max charging rate, but just taper later during the charge. So 129KW charging is not possible unless tesla release a higher current capable charging station. i.e. 150KW stations.

Yes, liquid cooled cables and a 150KW supercharger will be that next step I assume. I'm just saying until that next step in superchargers comes we don't really know the limit of the S70D or S90D at supercharging. It may be that they have some headroom in the pack that can't currently be taken advantage of due to limitations of the charge port or cable.

It is possilbe that the charge port itself won't allow for more than 120KW and the jump to 150KW chargers will just improve the shared stall pairing issue so that heavily congested superchargers don't slow down.

But even so we'll surely see less taper as the battery packs and cooling improve.