Tesla Referral Program

[Matteo]

Just in case anyone hasn't noticed... we're not allowing referral links to be posted in TMC. It goes against the spirit of the program. Please refrain from posting said links.

I think Elon would disagree with that statement. Two people posted their referral links on twitter and Elon posted thank you messages to both. Of course you can do what you decide on TMC but saying that posting referral links is not within the spirit of the program doesn't look right to me based on Elon's responses. Of course twitter is different than a forum. In forums there are discussion topics and it would look inappropriate if people joined the discussion and then said by the way here is my link. However, if referral links were allowed in signatures, that would be a reasonable implementation. Earlier in this topic somebody speculated that this promotion is probably meant for people who recommend the car to their neighbours and friends and it is not meant for strangers clicking your link on the Internet. Yes, that's one idea but looking at Elon's response most people would disagree with that idea. By the way, I don't have a referral link, therefore this topic doesn't affect me either way.

First example. LINK

Second example. LINK

 

[ohmman]

I would argue that, even if it doesn't go against the spirit of the program, it goes against the spirit of this forum. I side with the mods on banning referral links on TMC.

 

[bonnie]

Huge difference between twitter followers/facebook friends and this forum. Since this forum is full of Tesla enthusiasts and owners, it is more soliciting from strangers. But the only people who see my tweets are those who choose to follow me - and my facebook posts are seen by my friends.

Soliciting on TMC just is irksome. If people want to win, then be an evangelist for EVs and specifically, Tesla. But coming on here and literally trying to buy your way to the Model X prize by offering a cash bonus is just not contributing to the forum, it's using the forum for personal gain.

Go hurt your twitter following by spamming over there. Annoy your friends and family on fb. Heck, ask them to repost your link. Whatever. But soliciting here just seems totally lazy.

 

[Merrill]

Huge difference between twitter followers/facebook friends and this forum. Since this forum is full of Tesla enthusiasts and owners, it is more soliciting from strangers. But the only people who see my tweets are those who choose to follow me - and my facebook posts are seen by my friends.

Soliciting on TMC just is irksome. If people want to win, then be an evangelist for EVs and specifically, Tesla. But coming on here and literally trying to buy your way to the Model X prize by offering a cash bonus is just not contributing to the forum, it's using the forum for personal gain.

Go hurt your twitter following by spamming over there. Annoy your friends and family on fb. Heck, ask them to repost your link. Whatever. But soliciting here just seems totally lazy.

Totally agree with PB

 

[AlMc]

My bias is already out there that I am not in favor of this program. Given that it is out there and that the TM team is collectively a lot smarter than I, I guess I wish that they were not giving away a 'free' X. The company has always had everyone pay the same amount for their vehicle, IIRC. Probably better to let the highest 'prize' be have EM personally deliver the vehicle/sign the visor/special badging at the 'reduced' price equal to the 10X$1,000 referral bonus.

The program may increase sales but IMO does cheapen the brand just a little.

 

[ahurst]

I assume discount does not apply to inventory vehicles?

 

[Andyw2100]

My bias is already out there that I am not in favor of this program. Given that it is out there and that the TM team is collectively a lot smarter than I, I guess I wish that they were not giving away a 'free' X. The company has always had everyone pay the same amount for their vehicle, IIRC. Probably better to let the highest 'prize' be have EM personally deliver the vehicle/sign the visor/special badging at the 'reduced' price equal to the 10X$1,000 referral bonus.

The program may increase sales but IMO does cheapen the brand just a little.

I have my concerns about the program as well, but this is not one of them. I think having one "grand prize" (or in this case one grand prize per region) is just fine, and having the grand prize be a fully loaded Model X puts the spotlight on the Model X a bit. So I think this is fine.

I do share the "cheapening the brand" concerns. I just haven't yet decided if they outweigh the good that will come with the program.

For me, the biggest "cheapening the brand" issue is really how others may perceive what we're saying about our cars, and why we're saying it. I know I started the thread about whether or not people are better or worse ambassadors for Tesla now, and then when asked gave the reasons that I speak positively about my car less frequently than before, and somewhat less enthusiastically than before. But I still talk about it with a fair amount of enthusiasm, and there is little doubt in my mind that people I have talked to have gotten a very good impression of Tesla (though perhaps a little bit less so more recently.) My concern is if people know about this referral program (and if it becomes more permanent they are sure to) will they question our motives when we're singing the praises of our cars? Will that weaken what we're saying? Will the skeptics take everything we say with a grain of salt because they think we're trying to make some money? I'm not concerned about this with respect, necessarily, to our good friends and relatives, but rather for our acquaintances and for the strangers. I definitely think there is some downside here. The big question is whether or not it is more than made up for by the upside. While I believe time will tell, I am also concerned about the fact that the negatives I'm talking about are pretty hard to quantify, and it could be a long time before they are really felt. The positive aspects of the program will be easily quantifiable. So I worry that the program may appear successful while in actuality it could be hurting Tesla long-term.

Luckily people who are a lot smarter than me are dealing with this, but these are some of my thoughts.

 

[bonnie]

I have my concerns about the program as well, but this is not one of them. I think having one "grand prize" (or in this case one grand prize per region) is just fine, and having the grand prize be a fully loaded Model X puts the spotlight on the Model X a bit. So I think this is fine.

I do share the "cheapening the brand" concerns. I just haven't yet decided if they outweigh the good that will come with the program.

For me, the biggest "cheapening the brand" issue is really how others may perceive what we're saying about our cars, and why we're saying it. I know I started the thread about whether or not people are better or worse ambassadors for Tesla now, and then when asked gave the reasons that I speak positively about my car less frequently than before, and somewhat less enthusiastically than before. But I still talk about it with a fair amount of enthusiasm, and there is little doubt in my mind that people I have talked to have gotten a very good impression of Tesla (though perhaps a little bit less so more recently.) My concern is if people know about this referral program (and if it becomes more permanent they are sure to) will they question our motives when we're singing the praises of our cars? Will that weaken what we're saying? Will the skeptics take everything we say with a grain of salt because they think we're trying to make some money? I'm not concerned about this with respect, necessarily, to our good friends and relatives, but rather for our acquaintances and for the strangers. I definitely think there is some downside here. The big question is whether or not it is more than made up for by the upside. While I believe time will tell, I am also concerned about the fact that the negatives I'm talking about are pretty hard to quantify, and it could be a long time before they are really felt. The positive aspects of the program will be easily quantifiable. So I worry that the program may appear successful while in actuality it could be hurting Tesla long-term.

Luckily people who are a lot smarter than me are dealing with this, but these are some of my thoughts.

I wish there wasn't a car giveaway (that seems to have brought out some really bad behavior), but I thought the gigafactory party invite was a nice touch. Perhaps a 'dinner with Elon and/or JB', or 'private factory tour by a Tesla VP' ... stuff that Tesla enthusiasts would really appreciate (and cannot buy). Seems like that would really fire up the evangelists, while (maybe) eliminating some of the bad behavior we're all witnessing.

 

[Andyw2100]

I wish there wasn't a car giveaway (that seems to have brought out some really bad behavior), but I thought the gigafactory party invite was a nice touch. Perhaps a 'dinner with Elon and/or JB', or 'private factory tour by a Tesla VP' ... stuff that Tesla enthusiasts would really appreciate (and cannot buy). Seems like that would really fire up the evangelists, while (maybe) eliminating some of the bad behavior we're all witnessing.

I wasn't even considering the bad behavior when I said I was fine with the big prizes. From that standpoint, I guess I have to agree. If the big prizes were out of the picture there would be a lot less craziness.

The thing is I don't understand how the people participating in the craziness could really expect to win when there was only going to be one prize per region. I can't decide if the people that thought they had a shot were really optimistic or really stupid or both.

 

[AlMc]

I wasn't even considering the bad behavior when I said I was fine with the big prizes. From that standpoint, I guess I have to agree. If the big prizes were out of the picture there would be a lot less craziness.

The thing is I don't understand how the people participating in the craziness could really expect to win when there was only going to be one prize per region. I can't decide if the people that thought they had a shot were really optimistic or really stupid or both.

It is called greed. This is something most TM/EV supporters have been doing with no compensation other than our interest in furthering a vision of non fossil fueled transportation.

 

[Matteo]

Other car makers sell their cars to dealers. Therefore they don't have to worry about demand fluctuations. Tesla continuously has to balance demand and production. If demand is a lot more than production, wait times will be long. If demand drops below production, they have to drop production too. Therefore Tesla needs a demand micromanagement tool that is very quick to implement. Stores and superchargers are demand tools too but they are not quick enough. They are long term tools. They can't help with a seasonal drop that could happen for a bunch of reasons (a bad media article, rumours about upcoming hardware changes, currency fluctuations). Eventually Tesla could drop this incentive to, let's say $400. Then if demand drops too much they can just say, for the next two weeks you get $600. It is a perfect micromanagement tool.

 

[Andyw2100]

Other car makers sell their cars to dealers. Therefore they don't have to worry about demand fluctuations. Tesla continuously has to balance demand and production. If demand is a lot more than production, wait times will be long. If demand drops below production, they have to drop production too. Therefore Tesla needs a demand micromanagement tool that is very quick to implement. Stores and superchargers are demand tools too but they are not quick enough. They are long term tools. They can't help with a seasonal drop that could happen for a bunch of reasons (a bad media article, rumours about upcoming hardware changes, currency fluctuations). Eventually Tesla could drop this incentive to, let's say $400. Then if demand drops too much they can just say, for the next two weeks you get $600. It is a perfect micromanagement tool.

That assumes people in the market for Teslas are going to be making a wait or buy decision based on what amounts to a tiny percentage of the total value of the car. Your argument makes sense when you're talking about, say, a $50 rebate on a $250 product, but I just don't see the referral figures, if they are what they are now, or as in your example, having much of an effect on when someone makes the purchase.

That's not to say that the whole referral concept is bad. I just don't buy into being able to use it to control demand in the way you're suggesting might be done.

 

[Matteo]

I just don't see ...

Wait until Model 3. Then it will make more sense. Getting $5-10K in incentives for a $50K car is not bad.

I should add that a few months ago Elon talked about this. He said ideally wait times should be mid to high single digit weeks. He said this is a tricky subject and controlling it is quite difficult. The journalist was asking him, "How long is the wait time now?", "How long should it be ideally?". To me it looked like Elon spent time thinking about this.

 

[Andyw2100]

Wait until Model 3. Then it will make more sense. Getting $5-10K in incentives for a $50K car is not bad.

Where are you suddenly getting $5-$10K in incentives from, and for the Model 3, a car that is going to cost much less than the Model S, which has the max incentive for the buyer (right now) at $1000 (in the US.)

 

[Matteo]

Where are you suddenly getting $5-$10K in incentives from, and for the Model 3, a car that is going to cost much less than the Model S, which has the max incentive for the buyer (right now) at $1000 (in the US.)

I'm talking about the person who is doing the referring. Right now you can earn up to $10,000 or €10,000 or £10,000 (15,619 USD) from referrals. That's not bad. If you give people these kind incentives, they will find new buyers. If the incentive is high and has a deadline, they will increase their efforts during that time. Some people might even gather colleagues and do powerpoint presentations about EVs during those promotion weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if some people did that.

In your version there are already a bunch of potential buyers who are considering buying a new Tesla. In my version these people don't exist. The person who is doing the referring will find new buyers who might have never thought about buying an electric car. Of course for that to happen, the car needs to be comparable in price to a gas car they would have bought otherwise. Model 3 fits that description. Then when you explain the gas savings, the performance advantages, the environmental aspect, combining with solar etc. it makes a lot more sense.

By the way, I found this video. Listen from 5:31 (Direct link to 5:31 2013 Teslive Event - YouTube)

 

[HankLloydRight]

How does the referral program work with leased cars bought from the Design Studio?

 

[MSEV]

If you are concerned about looking like you are making money off the sale to your friend (or whomever), don't make anything off of their buy: give them the credit and they will get $2000 off and everyone will be happy.

 

[Andyw2100]

Eventually Tesla could drop this incentive to, let's say $400. Then if demand drops too much they can just say, for the next two weeks you get $600. It is a perfect micromanagement tool.

Wait until Model 3. Then it will make more sense. Getting $5-10K in incentives for a $50K car is not bad.

I'm talking about the person who is doing the referring. Right now you can earn up to $10,000 or €10,000 or £10,000 (15,619 USD) from referrals. That's not bad. If you give people these kind incentives, they will find new buyers. If the incentive is high and has a deadline, they will increase their efforts during that time. Some people might even gather colleagues and do powerpoint presentations about EVs during those promotion weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if some people did that.

You're making completely different arguments that are not consistent, and don't make sense.

In your first example you talk about changing the incentives from $1000 to $400 and then to $600, for the buyer, in order to tweak demand. Then when I pointed out what a small fraction of the value of the car that was, you brought up the $5-$10K, on a $50K Model 3. When I questioned where the $5-$10K was coming from you changed gears, and said it was for the referrer, who would go out and find customers. But then how would the price of the car factor in? The referrer is still only getting the amount per car, so your example of $5-$10K on a $50K car makes no sense.

Also, if someone is inclined to really make a lot of referrals for Tesla, I don't think the difference between $400 and $600 is going to matter at all. They're not going to sit around waiting, not referring people when the incentive is $400 (as your last example tied back to your first suggests) and then suddenly go out and refer people when the incentive becomes $600. If people are inclined to refer other people for money, they are just going to do it. If the referral bonus increases significantly, it may encourage more people to "get in the game", so to speak, but I reject your premise that demand can be fine-tuned by small changes in the amount of the referral incentive either to the buyer or to the seller--whichever argument you choose to make next.

 

[AlMc]

If you are concerned about looking like you are making money off the sale to your friend (or whomever), don't make anything off of their buy: give them the credit and they will get $2000 off and everyone will be happy.

Yes. I will do that, as I am sure many other TMCers will do,but that is not the only point. The program has opened a door for not only some nefarious 'hawking' for referrals but cheapened the brand by 'giving away' a product that up until now everyone paid the same price to acquire.

 

[Andyw2100]

If you are concerned about looking like you are making money off the sale to your friend (or whomever), don't make anything off of their buy: give them the credit and they will get $2000 off and everyone will be happy.

The situation is a lot thornier than that. I'll give a real life example, as it affects me.

I have plans to see an acquaintance tomorrow who I haven't seen since I took delivery of my P85D in December. In fact I don't think I have seen him since ordering the Model S. I know I never told him about it. He drives a Prius, and my plan was to surprise him with news of my purchase, take him for a ride, etc. My plans were always to do this whenever we next got together. If he were a close friend, he'd know me well enough to know that these had always been my plans, and that the new Tesla referral program had nothing to do with them. But he's not a close friend. We just don't know each other that well. I'm not sure what he'll now make of me wanting to show off the car a bit tomorrow. A week ago I wouldn't have thought twice about this, but now I am.