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Wiki [UK] V11 Release

gangzoom

Active Member
May 22, 2014
1,322
1,131
Uk
Ahhh but which year does he mean😂
Might be the end of the next year we have a total eclipse of sun and moon at the same time.
In other words, F*** knows when that will happen😂

The transition away from radar does seem to have worked though, and FSD Beta v9 'vision' really does seem better than v8 with radar.

When will it come to the UK? Who knows.

But this is a software push not a hardware limitation. At some point it'll come, and the fact Tesla can add such new 'ability' to our 4 years old car via software is why I personally don't mind all the other issues I've had with our car.

What other car manufactured in right now is going to gain anything close to the functionality FSD v9 is doing, let alone a car manufactured in 2016!!
 

Marc Roberts

Member
Jul 9, 2019
581
388
UK
As someone who purchased the FSD package, every improvement is welcomed here!

Still, they won't ever get to *full* self driving without a universally adopted car-car communication protocol. Otherwise, how are these vehicles going to negotiate deadlock scenarios, such as: Who is going to reverse down this narrow two way road to the next passing point to let the other car pass, when both cars have equal right of way and are playing by the same rulebook...
 

Dilly

Active Member
Feb 24, 2020
2,069
1,685
Norfolk
As someone who purchased the FSD package, every improvement is welcomed here!

Still, they won't ever get to *full* self driving without a universally adopted car-car communication protocol. Otherwise, how are these vehicles going to negotiate deadlock scenarios, such as: Who is going to reverse down this narrow two way road to the next passing point to let the other car pass, when both cars have equal right of way and are playing by the same rulebook...
That’s what camp mode is for 😂
 

Avendit

Member
Apr 18, 2019
838
553
EDI
As someone who purchased the FSD package, every improvement is welcomed here!

Still, they won't ever get to *full* self driving without a universally adopted car-car communication protocol. Otherwise, how are these vehicles going to negotiate deadlock scenarios, such as: Who is going to reverse down this narrow two way road to the next passing point to let the other car pass, when both cars have equal right of way and are playing by the same rulebook...
I think you have a car to car communication protocol - 3 wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum are monitored in most directions...

I kinda like musk's argument that it's enough for us, it's enough for a car.

There are a few ways your situation could play out (theoretically, let's face it we are no where near use on single track roads ATM). Baseline assumption of you are making is that some gesturing is needed to sort the problem, but really, you and the other car likely both know who is closer to a passing place and there for who should reverse. An AI actually takes all the ego out of it and hopefully suggests the obvious solution. Possibly for tie breakers the more northerly car has to make the first move, this could be mandated (although I dislike that approach). It's also worth bearing in mind that humans fail this task too (road rage, refusal to compromise and do the sensible thing, crashed car etc)

There are lots of other considerations here, but the point is you don't need car to car comms to solve the situation, it's just one way. You could develop a theory of mind equivalent to let the car consider the problem from the other cars perspective (although this is one way to promote accidental self awareness I believe).

Agree level 5 is a way off, but I don't think we are even close enough to advocate one solution over another tbh.

Successfully driving most of the time in most situations seems within grasp from the v9 videos.
 
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GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Mar 16, 2018
1,267
802
UK
I think the deadlock is one of the reasons why level 5 is not going to happen, but lets face it, even level 3 (officially allow eyes off) would be a step forward, then level 4 can follow, and we can worry about driverless cars (level 5) in the distant future.

Musks "good enough for us, good enough for the car" is in conflict with his "the car will be orders of magnitude safer" - parity is therefore not sufficient. And I know the argument is cameras looking in all directions at the same time, but when I'm driving I don't tell myself once a week that my side vision is not available today and my driving ability is disengagded, so I'm not sure they've even reached parity on vision.

The jury is still out with me on Tesla vision, I'd want much more evidence of night, wet driving and more complex situations. Happy day scenarios which are 90% of the time and 99% of the youtube clips are the relative easy bit.
 
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goRt

Member
Nov 22, 2016
414
218
Original Hampshire ;-)
I think the deadlock is one of the reasons why level 5 is not going to happen, but lets face it, even level 3 (officially allow eyes off) would be a step forward, then level 4 can follow, and we can worry about driverless cars (level 5) in the distant future.

Musks "good enough for us, good enough for the car" is in conflict with his "the car will be orders of magnitude safer" - parity is therefore not sufficient. And I know the argument is cameras looking in all directions at the same time, but when I'm driving I don't tell myself once a week that my side vision is not available today and my driving ability is disengagded, so I'm not sure they've even reached parity on vision.

The jury is still out with me on Tesla vision, I'd want much more evidence of night, wet driving and more complex situations. Happy day scenarios which are 90% of the time and 99% of the youtube clips are the relative easy bit.
The car will be orders of magnitude safer as it won't get distracted
 
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ACarneiro

Active Member
Jun 20, 2019
1,394
1,118
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
The car will be orders of magnitude safer as it won't get distracted
True, and it will (potentially, maybe) react quicker.
I do worry a bit about the quality of the vision inputs, though. The recordings don’t seem to be particularly high resolution or high quality and the car seems unable to “drive three cars ahead”.
 

GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Mar 16, 2018
1,267
802
UK
The cameras are in the middle of the car, I suggest you try driving only looking from that position and see how well you do, little chance of seeing past the van or lorry you may be following unlike now. No ability to move the position of the camera to reduce solar flare, no chance to reposition the camera if you’re at a road junction and there is something blocking your sideways view. It’s compromised in all those regards compared to the human eye.
 
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goRt

Member
Nov 22, 2016
414
218
Original Hampshire ;-)
The cameras are in the middle of the car, I suggest you try driving only looking from that position and see how well you do, little chance of seeing past the van or lorry you may be following unlike now. No ability to move the position of the camera to reduce solar flare, no chance to reposition the camera if you’re at a road junction and there is something blocking your sideways view. It’s compromised in all those regards compared to the human eye.
There are cameras on the side of my car and also one on the rear
 
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twlr

Member
Oct 1, 2020
176
97
Woking
The cameras are in the middle of the car, I suggest you try driving only looking from that position and see how well you do, little chance of seeing past the van or lorry you may be following unlike now. No ability to move the position of the camera to reduce solar flare, no chance to reposition the camera if you’re at a road junction and there is something blocking your sideways view. It’s compromised in all those regards compared to the human eye.
Model 3s have 8 cameras in total; 3 forward facing, 2 forward facing to the side, 2 rear facing to the side, and 1 rear facing
 
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gangzoom

Active Member
May 22, 2014
1,322
1,131
Uk
The jury is still out with me on Tesla vision, I'd want much more evidence of night, wet driving and more complex situations. Happy day scenarios which are 90% of the time and 99% of the youtube clips are the relative easy bit.

You must be watching different videos to me than! FSD beta 9.0 looks better than 8.0, and that's with the REMOVAL of radar.

The 'vision' bit is all but solved the next hard task is route planning and decision making which is where FSD beta currently still struggles with. But if you believe Elon that's what their new supercomputer is there to do.

Watching FSD beta developing is frustrating though as the majority of Tesla owners at present can only just watch and wait.

Interesting the Navigation on Autopilot code also looks better in FSD beta. Patience is a virtual, but I do wish they stop teasing us and at least release the visualisation to the wider fleet.

Regardless of timings increased autonomy is coming and its great none of us have to buy a new car to experience it! I don't know why any Tesla owners would be against FSD developments when it really will benefit every owner.
 
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goRt

Member
Nov 22, 2016
414
218
Original Hampshire ;-)
You must be watching different videos to me than! FSD beta 9.0 looks better than 8.0, and that's with the REMOVAL of radar.

The 'vision' bit is all but solved the next hard task is route planning and decision making which is where FSD beta currently still struggles with. But if you believe Elon that's what their new supercomputer is there to do.

Watching FSD beta developing is frustrating though as the majority of Tesla owners at present can only just watch and wait.

Interesting the Navigation on Autopilot code also looks better in FSD beta. Patience is a virtual, but I do wish they stop teasing us and at least release the visualisation to the wider fleet.

Regardless of timings increased autonomy is coming and its great none of us have to buy a new car to experience it! I don't know why any Tesla owners would be against FSD developments when it really will benefit every owner.
Simple task to release the code to everyone geo-fencing the options used by regulatory regime/what's purchased - so we get improved NoA, wipers, etc. but city streets is disabled
 
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GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Mar 16, 2018
1,267
802
UK
Model 3s have 8 cameras in total; 3 forward facing, 2 forward facing to the side, 2 rear facing to the side, and 1 rear facing
I know exactly where the cameras point - only 3 look forward and they're all centrally mounted, and as generally we drive in a forward direction they were the ones I was referring to.

Try it next time you're following someone, see how often you might move your head to the right to get a better view down the road past what you're following, and also try leaning towards the middle of the car and see how good the vision is.
 

GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Mar 16, 2018
1,267
802
UK
Yes but we crash, a lot. And some of those crashes are due to being unsighted or seeing things too late. I thought the point of this was to be better than us.
Not just better than us, but orders of magnitude better than us. He had hoped for 2x was going to be good enough to get approval, I think the last time he commented it needed to be at least 10x better.
 

Battpower

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Oct 10, 2019
2,100
2,129
Uk
side vision is not available today and my driving ability is disengagded
At some times of year / locations, I can almost guarantee all or part of the camera suit will be compromised.


The jury is still out with me on Tesla visi
When the wipes smear the front camera view or get blinded is just when you might need assistance that radar / non-vision based sensor could provide.


safer as it won't get distracted

'Reaction' vs 'Distraction' make for interesting contemplation wrt our cars' behaviour with both having potentially similar outcomes under different circumstances.
 

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