Accident for unable to brake efficiently: Tesla's or my fault? [early 2020]

[AGARubberDuck]

Not quite the same as being on a bike. From a legal perspective it is much better to be "not moving" at the time of an accident. If the front car had pulled ahead it is possible the blame would have shifted, especially if he had then been pushed into anything/anyone else. Of course if injury is going to result -- like if you were on a bike or if the speed was very high -- than I would still pull up.

Apparently more people disagree with my original comment then agree, so I must be looking at it wrong. To me, it appears that after being pushed forward by the collision and a moment of the Hyundai letting off the brake, it STILL not yet into the generously-wide crosswalk. "Legal perspective" is not always the same as common sense. If I wanted to keep my rear bumper free from a collision, I'd pull up the 15 feet or so regardless of whether I "should legally have to" or not.
On a motorcycle - if I'm about to get creamed in a similar situation, I'd rather be alive than right.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

You should send us a picture of your tires. I am wonder what the tread depth was.

He said the car is new with only 2000 miles. Even with a bad alignment, the tires will have close to new tread at this point.

 

[neurocutie]

Don't know the temperature, but it sounded like the OP was anticipating effective regen braking first. In my experience, regen braking is highly variable, at least in colder temperatures. So as a new Tesla driver, one has to be extra cautious until you get to "know the car" and in this case, its braking systems. Certainly before that kind of expectation to brake from a fairly high speed. Under the video conditions, I would have jammed on the real brakes and not trusted any regen braking.

 

[sperkin]

He said the car is new with only 2000 miles. Even with a bad alignment, the tires will have close to new tread at this point.

Then its the LRR tires Tesla puts on these cars. They are just poor at hard breaking plus the poor brakes on the Model 3. Without regeneration the brakes are too small for this heavy car. So I think even with regen and hard braking the car just takes longer than other lighter cars.

Looks like wet road, down hill, plus driving slughtly faster than traffic attributed to this accident. This is just a minor accident. No sweat over it. Driver was paying attention and had okay reflex so I don't think he was on the phone, etc.

 

[DougInCT]

Had you been using "standard" regenerative braking since new? I had been in my car and I realized on the first hard stop that the brakes had not bedded - they barely worked. After that I left the car In "low" for a while and performed a number of hard stops. Braking is MUCH better now.

I think Tesla should make this part of the break-in procedure for new cars.

I had the same experience, and was wondering if that's what happened here. I rarely use my brakes, but I am careful to use them at least once a week to keep them cleaned and working.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

The ABS cut in which means the brakes were working fine.
It's the tyres which stop you, not the brakes.

 

[SageBrush]

Are lane markings standardized ?
If so these cam videos allow speed calculation.

 

[KenC]

Are lane markings standardized ?
If so these cam videos allow speed calculation.

Yes, and if someone knows where this took place, then a map could help verify distances, etc.

 

[lotusland]

Apparently more people disagree with my original comment then agree, so I must be looking at it wrong.

I would not say you are looking at it wrong, just differently. My experience over time is that there is always the possibility of things I am not seeing. A perfect example is a launch of a P3D. I am extremely careful about launching because I know -- from experience -- that pedestrians can appear in a lane even after I have checked it. They can weave between cars (like some idiot bikers do), they can be on very fast-moving skateboards -- really there are a million variables. Any sudden move can have implications that go far beyond whether the "generous" crosswalk was occupied the 100 milliseconds before. When you decide to save your bumper, you do accept the added risk. For me the issue is not purely the legal implications but minimizing injury -- to myself and others. Obviously if I can pull ahead 100% safely and save a rear-ending I will do it. I think where we differ is in "100% safely". Over time I have learned that it is hard to know when something is 100% safe.

 

[KenC]

Also found this Comparison of best Model 3 compatible tires (18", 19", 20"), sourced from Tirerack.com ratings : teslamotors
Seems like OEM tire sucks...

Looking at the chart, the best all-around tires for mixed weather performance would appear to be the Michelin Cross Climate+ or the Vredestein Quatrac5. Both are snow-rated, and have excellent wet weather performance according to the chart. The Goodyear Assurance has high ratings as well, but I had the impression the load rating didn't match the OEMs, so might not be installed by a tire shop. The other top-rated wet performers were seasonal.

 

[Luudcrs]

Definitely your fault and driver error. You passed 3 cars in a span of 10 seconds on city streets. The black SUV on your left started braking while you seemed to continue your speed, and eventually braking too late causing ABS to engage. Simply too much speed for the wet conditions in my opinion.

 

[shiv987]

Looks to me like you skidded on the wet pavement. Why do you claim that the brakes didn't work as they were supposed to?

same way people are claiming their tesla "accelerated" by itself, my a$$ lol

 

[Leeclanual]

Try a different tire... I have 19” continentals that came OEM in my AWD... no problems first 12,000 miles in light snow, rain, and/or dry roads.

 

[GoodManFrank]

Are lane markings standardized ?
If so these cam videos allow speed calculation.

I don't know the answer, but let's assume the lane markings are standard. I found this:
https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-medi...ents/ca-mutcd/camutcd2014-part3-rev3-a11y.pdf

So one line is (7+17)ft = 24ft

I calculated the number of lines passed for the first 5s to estimate speed, and I get this:

Me: 11.5 lines
Audi: 11 lines
Hyundai: 11.5 - 12 lines (hard to tell from long distance)

11 lines in 5 s = 11 * 24 / 5 = 52.8 ft/s = 36mph
11.5 lines in 5 s = 11.5 * 24 / 5 = 55.2 ft/s = 37.6mph
12 lines in 5 s = 12 * 24 / 5 = 57.6 ft/s = 39.2mph

Well this might not be accurate or even incorrect. If my math is fine, I'm a little bit higher than the speed limit (which I shouldn't considering the road condition), but the real problem is not slowing down & relying too much on regen in the last few seconds. Also agree there's no problem with brake or tire, but a better tire could have avoided the accident.

 

[kilpatds]

I had a similar accident in a different car several decades ago. (instead of a stopped car, it was with a car that made a left directly in front of me, contrary to right-of-way. But ... had my brakes been working as I expected, I would have still avoided it)

In my case, the issue was both my driving, and my car's ABS behavior. Going downhill on slick roads, the ABS decided to all "Anti Lock" and to avoid doing any "Braking". This is a deliberate design decision, so that you can still steer. I failed to take advantage of that steerability, like you did here.

The second mistake I made, which is related, is "target fixation". I kept looking at the thing I was trying to avoid, instead of looking at "not that". As a result, I didn't steer away. When you see an accident developing, look toward space, not other cars.

 

[SageBrush]

I don't know the answer, but let's assume

Judging the other cars accurately is dependent on being in the same relative position to the other car.

That problem does not effect your car so it is a lot more accurate. You might consider calculating the car speed for every 24 feet. You can count the number of video frames that elapsed and use the frame rate of the video. You will have ~ 1/2 second of video every 24 feet when the speed is 32 mph.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

you are driving on wet pavement. you are driving FASTer than other cars. you brake seconds (!) later than other cars. and it's the cars fault? lol

 

[DaveRZ]

I've had my M3 for 6 months now and after a couple hard panic stops I can honestly say that my 18" MXM4s are TERRIBLE for braking, even on clean dry ground. Yes, I know, its a very heavy car. Plus, its neutral handling and low center of gravity give you tons of confidence in normal and spirited driving. However, all that engineering is let down by low performing all season tires better suited for a 4cyl Camry. The tires are quite skinny too (for lower rolling resistance), so less contact patch with the ground.

I was lucky enough to find this out "the easy way" on a clear dry day and avoided an accident so now I give a lot more room to stopping than the high-performance feel of the car suggests I need. I'll be looking for a better tire when this set wears out.

Glad the accident was minor.

 

[GoodManFrank]

Judging the other cars accurately is dependent on being in the same relative position to the other car.

That problem does not effect your car so it is a lot more accurate. You might consider calculating the car speed for every 24 feet. You can count the number of video frames that elapsed and use the frame rate of the video. You will have ~ 1/2 second of video every 24 feet when the speed is 32 mph.

Well the original footage frame rate 36fps is not high enough to capture a precise 24 ft. I think averaging over a period of time is more accurate.
But I made a rough calculation though. It's about 15 frames per line, which makes 24 / (15 / 36) = 57.6 ft/s = 39.2mph

 

[woedee]

No issues with braking here (Model 3 Performance [w/Performance upgrades]).