FSD Beta 10.69

[Dewg]

It's important to remember that whistleblower laws are designed to protect someone from retaliation (including termination), but do not void NDAs. If the whistleblower discovers illegal activity and reports it to authorities, that does not violate NDAs. If the whistleblower discovers illegal activity and reports it to authorities and local media, they would be protected from retaliation for their whistleblowing, but not from violating their NDA.

If the whistleblower is also complicit in the activities (ie: they worked on the team that knowingly violated laws), whistleblower laws would not protect them from prosecution. They would need immunity.

 

[Dewg]

no, the rear gets a ton of wind, just the wrong type. There's a drag vortex back there which is responsible for that whole back side getting dirtier than the rest of the car. I would think there's a way to design a spoiler just for the camera to prevent so much grime from affecting it.

Regardless, it's really just the rear camera on the current design that poses a dirtiness problem for FSDb.

My evidence is anecdotal, but I've driven with a big drop of water on the rear camera many times. I turn on the cameras to watch it and at speed (45+MPH), that droplet doesn't move at all. If there was some wind, even wind pushing directly at the camera, I'd expect to see the droplet moving around. It appears like no wind is hitting the camera - at least not on my MY.

 

[EVNow]

And none of Tesla’s statements should be materially impacted by any schedule slip (since they definitely are not expecting anything any time soon!).

Their business is building and selling cars (and hopefully trucks!), not automating them!

True a few quarters back. But recent analyst notes talk about software revenue etc.

 

[EVNow]

Certainly makes a lot more sense to adjust parameters in a point release than to add features!

But, why wait for .2, what they could have done in .1 or .1.1 ?

So, two possibilities …
- Some of the setting changes need code changes that are not yet complete
- They have been making changes in all the releases and we’ll see some more in .2, which will offer better “polish”.

 

[M109Rider]

Anyone in Canada (that isn’t from the initi few beta testers) get this update yet

 

[FSDtester#1]

Anyone in Canada (that isn’t from the initi few beta testers) get this update yet

Teslafi is showing a good number of installs in Canada

 

[momo3605]

They have been making changes in all the releases and we’ll see some more in .2, which will offer better “polish”.

This is not guaranteed. Whatever parameters they tweaked in 10.69.1 botched up the release and made it worse. I really hope they don’t tweak anything significant in 10.69.2

 

[ElectricMagma]

Anyone in Canada (that isn’t from the initi few beta testers) get this update yet

I’m still patiently waiting.

Now that I know it’s coming, I’m creating my mental list of places where it constantly fails so I can go and try them out

 

[aronth5]

Turns out it doesn't matter if I got 10.69.1.1 today since it's raining out. Just went to the grocery store using 10.12.2 and FSD doesn't work due to bad weather detected. Sure hope Tesla addresses this going forward. I would say 50% of the time this happens in moderate rain and 90%+ in heavy rain.

Anyone driven in the rain using 10.69.1.1?

We have a FSD drive on 10.69.1.1 in the rain and as expected FSD punts.
Does anyone believe software changes can resolve this or are we looking at HW4 before FSD will work reliably in rain? (snow is another topic)

 

[ChiefToaster]

Saying this cautiously (as in, nobody really knows for sure how Tesla's organized internally) I get the impression that there's more than one group doing development over there. That's not unusual: when there's, say, 20 people working on the final release of 3.6, there's another bunch working on 3.7, a smaller crowd on 3.8, and one or two on 3.9. At the same time the systems engineers have dumped out the inspected 4.0 requirements and are busy messing around with features on 5.0. At least, that's the way I've seen it run on Big Development Projects, and those projects were likely smaller than what Tesla's R&D efforts are like.

I wouldn't be overly surprised that Elon is only tweeting about, using the above example, the 3.x tree, seeing as that's the one with visible results, safe enough for the CEO to drive around in, and there's a high likelihood, given how close to release a 3.x package might be, that a delivery time may be forecastable. If he did mention the 4.0 or 4.5 releases, it'd be really fuzzy statements, if anything.

Thing is, though, is that every time Tesla puts out a major release, they learn stuff and the systems engineers get busy again. It's quite possible that a 3.x (especially 3.9.1.1 ) is doing the manipulating-the-variables local minimum trick in a particular architecture. But a different, 4.0 or 5.0 architecture may have substantial improvements over 3.anything.

The above is definitely an optimistic, glass-half-full view of what Tesla is up to. As FSD-b testers, we only see what's come before and what we have right now; the future is somewhat obtuse. For all we know Tesla may have realized that there's no more there, there, and they're stuck. Get stuck badly enough and it's going to affect profitability and negate quite a few of Tesla's statements. Which would make the SEC really, really irritated. In such a case, a whistleblower could make quite a bit of hay, NDA or no NDA.

But there haven't been any whistleblowers like that, at all, from the inside. So, for now, I'd put my money on Tesla's people chugging along and coming out with better and better stuff. Maybe even hitting Level 3 despite those filings with the California DMV. (Remember: There's likely people rolling the dice inside Tesla as well as outside. What's better: Saying one can get to Level 3, then failing, or saying that one is going to do Level 2, but then managing to pull Level 3 off? The first attracts regulatory attention; the second, not so much.)

We'll see when we get there.

We actually got to witness this recently with Ashok Elluswamy’s presentation from June 20 presentation getting public exposure 2 weeks ago regarding the occupancy networks. My guess is they had occupancy networks at minimum proofed out and running on a test vehicle or simulated vehicle a couple weeks before he made that presentation which puts it all the way back to around 10.12.2. Meaning they probably had a plan to do this when 10.12.0 was coming out or still in development

 

[willow_hiller]

10.69.2 probably by the end of the week:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1566849487858982914

I'll take an Elon "probably" over an Elon "maybe" any day.

 

[GranularHail]

Get the battery replaced quickly - I have a friend with an M3 where the battery died completely, and getting into the frunk to replace it was a bit of a pain because you cannot open the frunk from your app or inside the car without the 12V.

FYI it should be pretty easy to open the frunk on an unlocked M3 or one where the 12V battery is totally dead. This YouTube video shows how easy it is with a regular 9V battery, although page 18 of the Emergency Response Guide from Tesla says you should use a 12V power source (like another car's battery, or a portable jump starter).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

recent analyst notes talk about software revenue etc.

I didn’t say anything about them not having software revenue! Their software revenue is likely pretty significant!

Anyway not sure the specific quote you are referring to. I guess I’d be a bit surprised if it suggests FSD (the City Streets portion) is important in the foreseeable future. There is not any evidence that it is, and there is not a competitive market for any such feature at the moment.

 

[powertoold]

Does anyone believe software changes can resolve this or are we looking at HW4 before FSD will work reliably in rain? (snow is another topic)

FSD beta used to enable in heavier rain (see Chuck's old videos), but now that FSD beta is under more scrutiny, Tesla has decided to be more conservative.

 

[Tronguy]

I doubt it.

FSD is insignificant for Tesla as long as there is no competition for these features, which there currently is not. No one else is doing this so whether or not they are successful doesn’t matter much. It’s not clear anyone will be able to do it anytime soon. And none of Tesla’s statements should be materially impacted by any schedule slip (since they definitely are not expecting anything any time soon!).

Their business is building and selling cars (and hopefully trucks!), not automating them!

Um. Musk standing up with his minions/co-workers at Autonomy Day and, I think, on more days over the last couple of years since then has made much of the idea of Tesla sending out robo-taxies and using them to, effectively, print money. To the point during that, during the Q&A sessions (if not before) there was talk that Tesla would keep the cars, send them out in fleets, and, pretty much, destroy all other modes of local transportation. (No, they didn't say that last. But they sure implied it.) They were pretty clear that When That Day Came, the value of a Tesla would skyrocket, what with all the fare income for the life of the car, and, rather than fund other people by letting them buy the car on the cheap, they'd raise the price of a Tesla to account for the missed income. $200,000 Model 3's, anyone? (That's a wild, insane guess, by the by. But not out of the range of possibilities.)

But nothing Tesla has said or done since that day has negated any of those forward-looking statements. And that includes Musk's statements that FSD is going to cost more and more, the closer they get to a working solution, whatever that turns out to be.

I'll agree with you that right now Tesla is in the business of minting and selling cars, you betcha. Check again in a couple of years and you may see a very different landscape. And, unlike many automotive competitors that are running around in circles out there who can't see more than a quarter or maybe a year in the future, Tesla is very definitely planning for the long term, in word and deed.

Admittedly, plans don't always succeed; what's that saw about Battle Plans and Contact with the Enemy? But, so far, Tesla appears to be looking hard at a software future.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Um. Musk standing up with his minions/co-workers at Autonomy Day and, I think, on more days over the last couple of years since then has made much of the idea of Tesla sending out robo-taxies and using them to, effectively, print money. To the point during that, during the Q&A sessions (if not before) there was talk that Tesla would keep the cars, send them out in fleets, and, pretty much, destroy all other modes of local transportation. (No, they didn't say that last. But they sure implied it.) They were pretty clear that When That Day Came, the value of a Tesla would skyrocket, what with all the fare income for the life of the car, and, rather than fund other people by letting them buy the car on the cheap, they'd raise the price of a Tesla to account for the missed income. $200,000 Model 3's, anyone? (That's a wild, insane guess, by the by. But not out of the range of possibilities.)

But nothing Tesla has said or done since that day has negated any of those forward-looking statements. And that includes Musk's statements that FSD is going to cost more and more, the closer they get to a working solution, whatever that turns out to be.

I'll agree with you that right now Tesla is in the business of minting and selling cars, you betcha. Check again in a couple of years and you may see a very different landscape. And, unlike many automotive competitors that are running around in circles out there who can't see more than a quarter or maybe a year in the future, Tesla is very definitely planning for the long term, in word and deed.

Admittedly, plans don't always succeed; what's that saw about Battle Plans and Contact with the Enemy? But, so far, Tesla appears to be looking hard at a software future.

Right, this was my point, it is not important for their business plan. Obviously software is and will be a big part of that (which is not what I was referring to when I said it was not important!). They of course need to have competitive offerings in the market, which they do.

If there is some sudden epiphany, then there will be a step change in valuation. But does not matter much for their current valuation, which is what I responded to. What we have is priced in for the most part; it’s not like there is some expectation that all of a sudden there will be Tesla robotaxis everywhere. That just is not anticipated at all.

 

[DarkForest]

Um. Musk standing up with his minions/co-workers at Autonomy Day and, I think, on more days over the last couple of years since then has made much of the idea of Tesla sending out robo-taxies and using them to, effectively, print money. To the point during that, during the Q&A sessions (if not before) there was talk that Tesla would keep the cars, send them out in fleets, and, pretty much, destroy all other modes of local transportation. (No, they didn't say that last. But they sure implied it.) They were pretty clear that When That Day Came, the value of a Tesla would skyrocket, what with all the fare income for the life of the car, and, rather than fund other people by letting them buy the car on the cheap, they'd raise the price of a Tesla to account for the missed income. $200,000 Model 3's, anyone? (That's a wild, insane guess, by the by. But not out of the range of possibilities.)

But nothing Tesla has said or done since that day has negated any of those forward-looking statements. And that includes Musk's statements that FSD is going to cost more and more, the closer they get to a working solution, whatever that turns out to be.

I'll agree with you that right now Tesla is in the business of minting and selling cars, you betcha. Check again in a couple of years and you may see a very different landscape. And, unlike many automotive competitors that are running around in circles out there who can't see more than a quarter or maybe a year in the future, Tesla is very definitely planning for the long term, in word and deed.

Admittedly, plans don't always succeed; what's that saw about Battle Plans and Contact with the Enemy? But, so far, Tesla appears to be looking hard at a software future.

My expectation is that either FSD will be insanely expensive to buy and relatively accessible to subscribe to, or the cars themselves will be expensive with a relatively accessible leasing option.

I don’t think Tesla will run their own robotaxi fleet. It’s too expensive to do something like that when they can just have Tesla owners (or leasees) pay even more for FSD + robotaxi subscription, take a cut of all revenue earned, and have the owners/leasees take on the overhead details (like keeping the car charged and stored when not in use).

They could even go one step further. Teslas become no longer attainable by individuals and the only way to “have one” is to become a maintenance contractor for their robotaxi fleet where our payment is the ability to use the Tesla ourselves for X amount of miles/hours per week as long as we keep it working and available for robotaxi duties for Y number of hours per week.

Don’t forget that even in the best case scenario, the ability to make our Tesla a robotaxi would require the infrastructure to be available to book the car, make payment, etc. It would be like Apple’s App Store which takes a 30% cut.

 

[generalmilk]

Yes, those roads I would expect it to do well on, since they generally aren’t too twisty. I would think on the (brief) twistiest sections of Big Sur it would be a little annoying briefly (can be a little jerky around right corners), but maybe not.

I’m actually curious if we’ll see regressions here on 10.69, now that the car may have a better idea of what it can’t see. No tests that I am aware of.

In general, from the responses here, it is all making sense and is consistent:

People do use it on city streets, disengaging or overriding with the accelerator very often. That is what I would expect.

I’m a bit surprised there aren’t more passenger complaints though. It’s pretty annoying! Not a big deal if I’m the only one in the car.

I usually forget I have FSD in these situations. While on a freeway it is almost automatic to turn AP on (or consider if the conditions allow it to be used safely), I don’t even think about doing it on surface streets unless I consciously want to try it out. So for me, definitely not “weird to drive without it” (on city streets).

The twistiest part of Big Sur (180 hairpin) is not longer a challenge since 10.8 IIRC, it used to cross yellow line and scare the oncoming cars. But yeah, it is not too twisty compare to other mountain roads I tried, even just the Muirwoods part of CA-1. Last time I was in that section it was a complete sugar show, but that’s a while ago. Need another trip to Point Reyes.

 

[generalmilk]

I've experienced this too. It's like the system wasn't ready for that acceleration and couldn't keep up in terms of its path planning. Now I avoid giving it too much juice in those turns, and it does better.

Definitely be careful when pushing it through turns. Car could freak out.

 

[buyleonard]

Does anyone believe software changes can resolve this or are we looking at HW4 before FSD will work reliably in rain?

Just my guess, but you train the AI in good weather first, then once you get everything working, you start training it to work while raining. So I won't be expecting it to work in the rain until it is a usable L3/L4 in good weather.