FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[WilliamG]

Is this really a movie? It's like a day in the life of a V11 FSD driver. Leave the World Behind... Yikes!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1733124282534736138

I just watched this movie tonight, partly because why not, and partly because Teslas. This scene was very interesting. No spoilers.

 

[mgs333]

I just watched this movie tonight, partly because why not, and partly because Teslas. This scene was very interesting. No spoilers.

I just finished watching it too after seeing the trailer here, wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised, it was pretty good. That scene with the Teslas seems like product placement.

Interesting to show self driving cars crashing to promote your product.

 

[WilliamG]

I just finished watching it too after seeing the trailer here, wasn't expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised, it was pretty good. That scene with the Teslas seems like product placement.

Feels like the opposite of product placement if you ask me…

 

[JulienW]

Wiper speculation doesn't sound very promising. Also V12 by end of Jan is likely VERY optimistic.

 

[JulienW]

.....That scene with the Teslas seems like product placement.

Interesting to show self driving cars crashing to promote your product.

Looks like Tesla is spending some "creative" Ad buys.

Actually this is great placement. It is a fantasy/movie and the long term impression is Tesla actually offers FSD and a unique car product. I think they made a mistake using a Performance (which is normal to promote a top model) because of the higher MSRP shown off the sticker since a standard model would have impressed more with a lower MSRP.

 

[rlsd]

Looks like Tesla is spending some "creative" Ad buys.

Actually this is great placement. It is a fantasy/movie and the long term impression is Tesla actually offers FSD and a unique car product. I think they made a mistake using a Performance (which is normal to promote a top model) because of the higher MSRP shown off the sticker since a standard model would have impressed more with a lower MSRP.

Does the movie say the year of the story? If it is 20 years from today then that price is very cheap compared to the today inflation rate. Everything things costs double since the last 3 years except Tesla cars.

 

[sleepydoc]

Wiper speculation doesn't sound very promising. Also V12 by end of Jan is likely VERY optimistic.

View attachment 997835

and I repeat my earlier question - why can’t they simply revert to the wiper code they used to use?

 

[jebinc]

Wiper speculation doesn't sound very promising. Also V12 by end of Jan is likely VERY optimistic.

View attachment 997835

I expect our auto wiper journey will be similar to many other features that have been perpetually tagged "beta," like Smart Summon. The journey will be long and aggravating.

Did you all read that the Cybertruck Founder Edition trucks (that includes FSD) have a “TBD” on FSD, TACC, auto parking and more? Meaning they are shipping $120k trucks without these paid for up front functions even working! Same BS language on the Cybertruck configurator page that we have seen on other models for auto parking AFTER they took the ultrasonic sensors away and professed how TeslaVision would rule the world!

In the coming months, I predict a lot of unhappy Cybertruck owner threads showing up on TMC.

 

[kabin]

and I repeat my earlier question - why can’t they simply revert to the wiper code they used to use?

Yep. Maybe not designed here itis?

Whatever it is, wipers and turn indicators should have been fixed ASAP.

 

[kabin]

I expect our auto wiper journey will be similar to many other features that have been perpetually tagged "beta," like Smart Summon. The journey will be long and aggravating.

Did you all read that the Cybertruck Founder Edition trucks (that includes FSD) have a “TBD” on FSD, TACC, auto parking and more? Meaning they are shipping $120k trucks without these paid for up front functions even working! Same BS language on the Cybertruck configurator page that we have seen on other models for auto parking AFTER they took the ultrasonic sensors away and professed how TeslaVision would rule the world!

In the coming months, I predict a lot of unhappy Cybertruck owner threads showing up on TMC.

And with leadership leaving team Dojo near term improvements aren't likely.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

And with leadership leaving team Dojo near term improvements aren't likely.

He probably doesn’t want his name on V12 and saw the opportunity to jump off the fiery sinking ship.

 

[LincolnsDoctor]

and I repeat my earlier question - why can’t they simply revert to the wiper code they used to use?

Maybe they think the current code works as well or better than the old code? We beta testers have no visibility into what Tesla thinks does or doesn't work, or how well it works, or how they decide if something works.

 

[jebinc]

Maybe they think the current code works as well or better than the old code? We beta testers have no visibility into what Tesla thinks does or doesn't work, or how well it works, or how they decide if something works.

Maybe this is just more a, "Charlatan doing charlatan things...." thing.

 

[willow_hiller]

Maybe this is just more a, "Charlatan doing charlatan things...." thing.

Step 1. Intentionally make features worse
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Profit

I hope you realize how little sense you make.

 

[rlsd]

Here is my wild guess why the wipers have problems since 11.4.7: Tesla reduces the number of photons to improve the processing speed for the NN perception. This works with large objects but doesn't work well with tiny rain drops or fuzzy rain pictures. Probably there is a fix: only detect the drain drops at a slower frequency because the car doesn't constantly need to know whether it's raining or not. Maybe 1 frame with more photons to detect rain then 30 frames with less photons for navigation objects..

 

[FSDtester#1]

Note that according to Dirty Tesla, you can turn off the misbehaving wipers with S3XY buttons.

S3XY Buttons

The button free interior of your Model 3 & Y is simple, clean, and, very occasionally, a tad annoying! There's so much you can do via the screen, but sometimes, don't you wish you actually had a glovebox button? Or a button to quickly turn on all your interior lights? Well, want no more....we...

abstractocean.com

My wipers have been turned off since April, I don't know if it's a MS thing, but they aren't needed for FSD, at least for me. Only dry wipes for me is when @Ramphex forgets my cream.

 

[Mardak]

why can’t they simply revert to the wiper code they used to use?

Perhaps it's too low on their priority list and probably how it got to the current situation. Basically, Tesla is focused on improving FSD and wipers happen to depend on some neural network prediction, so perhaps some training resulted in better safety and accidentally affected the wiper predictions. Tesla wasn't trying to change the wiper behavior and probably doesn't want to expend resources retraining networks just to fix wipers if it can then make safety worse.

To get back to the old wiper behavior, the old neural networks would probably need to be brought back, but it'll be additional work to just get that one portion of behavior as well as competing for resources with the main neural networks that Tesla does want active.

 

[willow_hiller]

Here is my wild guess why the wipers have problems since 11.4.7: Tesla reduces the number of photons to improve the processing speed for the NN perception. This works with large objects but doesn't work well with tiny rain drops or fuzzy rain pictures. Probably there is a fix: only detect the drain drops at a slower frequency because the car doesn't constantly need to know whether it's raining or not. Maybe 1 frame with more photons to detect rain then 30 frames with less photons for navigation objects..

I get the most false-positive rain detections on overcast days. It's possible Tesla has switched from trying to detect rain itself to more holistic training methods, and the network has learned a lot of context clues for when it's raining. But it hasn't yet learned that those context clues are necessary but not sufficient for rain.

 

[WilliamG]

Wiper speculation doesn't sound very promising. Also V12 by end of Jan is likely VERY optimistic.

View attachment 997835

Completely shocked that V12 isn't shipping by the end of the year as Muskedine promised. Completely. Shocked.

 

[Ramphex]

Maybe they think the current code works as well or better than the old code? We beta testers have no visibility into what Tesla thinks does or doesn't work, or how well it works, or how they decide if something works.

Maybe this is just more a, "Charlatan doing charlatan things...." thing.

Step 1. Intentionally make features worse
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Profit

I hope you realize how little sense you make.

Pretty sure Jeb’s response was to LincolnsDoctor’s post. If you read them in order, it makes sense. If you just read it by itself, then you post the type of response you did.

They didn’t intentionally make it worse, they accidentally made it worse, but because EM can never accept defeat and take it in the tailpipe, he’ll keep barreling forward with the issue as if nothing is wrong. That is a classic Elon move.