FSD Beta v11.x

JulienW · Jan 11, 2023

N00bMaster69 said:
To add to that, I don’t really like getting into conspiracy theories, butttt. I find it funny that Ford has been out with a driver assist system that solely relies on eye tracking but the minute Tesla mentions they’d do the same, NHTSA decides to look into it. Just saying.

Also Ford/GM (and all others) use detected Inferred sensors aimed directly at the face. Tesla is trying to repurpose a standard camera that was intended to monitor the entire cabin. Tesla is then trying to us AI to make an accurate estimation of what the eyes are doing. Standard cameras can NEVER measure the eyes accurately or even positively detect under almost all conditions the way an IR sensor can. IR passes through all sunglasses and can detect the eyes and even the most subtle movement in the darkest environment.

Tesla is not ready for eye tracking. This system is subjective and can always be fooled, blinded or just plain wrong about what it "thinks" it sees.

willow_hiller · Jan 11, 2023

JulienW said:
Also Ford (and all others) use detected Inferred sensors aimed directly at the face. Tesla is trying to repurpose a standard camera that was intended to monitor the entire cabin. Tesla is then trying to us AI to make an accurate estimation of what the eyes are doing. Standard cameras can NEVER measure the eyes accurately under almost all conditions the way an IR sensor can. IR passes through all sunglasses and can detect the eyes and even the most subtle movement in the darkest environment.

View attachment 894461

The point isn't to stop all cheating. It's to put barriers in place so that otherwise responsible people aren't tempted to cheat.

You can't come up with an idiot-proof system. There will always be a bigger idiot.

JulienW · Jan 11, 2023

willow_hiller said:
The point isn't to stop all cheating. It's to put barriers in place so that otherwise responsible people aren't tempted to cheat.

You can't come up with an idiot-proof system. There will always be a bigger idiot.

It is not just about cheating. It is about a system that is not suited for the task or accurate. IR sensors are EXTREMELY accurate and near impossible to cheat since they see the exact heat signature through the eye's pupils.

Tesla is using a camera that is just "seeing" and trying to figure out. For instance if it were dark with a person wearing sunglasses and you looked at them could you see and identify exactly were their eyes were looking? This is limitation that really can't be done with visible light.

Gbills · Jan 11, 2023

JulienW said:
So.........chicken for lunch is good idea?

Please adhere to your Avatar and break this up into multiple quotes and reply to each sentence and get in the last word.

Would V11 be an acceptable way of picking up chicken?

Does using V11 instead of L4 to get chicken result in a less tasty bird?

Most important: Which comes first: V11 or the egg of a chicken that I want to eat and has that egg been laid yet?

GSP · Jan 11, 2023

After reading the discussion here about Tesla’s “Full Self Driving” ”promising“ SAE L4 or L5, I took the time to read more of SAE’s J3016 document. Note that it is available for free download [SAE typically charges $$ for their documents].

SAE Levels of Driving Automation™ Refined for Clarity and International Audience

Advancing the conversation around mobility knowledge with news and trends to benefit humanity.

www.sae.org

Section 7 lists “deprecated terms” that SAE avoids due to their ambiguity. From paragraph 7.1.3:

Self-Driving
The meaning of this term can vary based on unstated assumptions about the meaning of driving and driver. It is variously used to refer to situations in which no driver is present, to situations in which no user is performing the DDT, and to situations in which a driving automation system is performing any part of the DDT.

I think it was a brilliant marketing move by Tesla to intensionally be ambiguous. FSD could mean one thing to potential buyers, another to the legal system. This also provides plenty of free publicity by the media and public continually discussing what FSD is, and is not.

GSP

PS. I joke that FSD means that you can “Fully Drive yourself.”

Bladerskb · Jan 11, 2023

Knightshade said:
Preparation is an action.

View attachment 894292

The exhaustive effort you two keep putting into being wrong about this is truly spectacular.

Nah fam, L3 only requires that there is “receptive user” behind the wheel. None of this “preparation” stuff. You can’t just use random words. Preparation ie. setting up the decors, chairs and tables for a wedding is not sitting back and reading a book, playing a game or watching a movie.

Knightshade · Jan 11, 2023

Bladerskb said:
Nah fam, L3 only requires that there is “receptive user” behind the wheel. None of this “preparation” stuff. You can’t just use random words.

I didn't use a random word.

I used the same word SAE does.

How embarrassing for you!

I guess we have another dude who didn't bother to read J3016 before telling us what it says!

SAE J3016 describing Level 3 said:
The DDT fallback-ready user need not supervise a Level 3 ADS while it is engaged but is expected to be prepared
to either resume DDT performance when the ADS issues a request to intervene or to perform the fallback and
achieve a minimal risk condition if the failure condition precludes continued vehicle operation

This is on page 31 BTW, listed as NOTE 2.

I can post a picture with the word prepared circled if you're one of those who does better with pictures than words?

MarcG · Jan 11, 2023

Might want to wait a while before v11 is released.. apparently this 8-car pileup was caused by phantom braking of FSD v11:

Footage of Tesla phantom braking causing 8-car crash pile-up emerges

Footage of the Tesla vehicle allegedly on “Full Self-Driving” that caused an eight-car crash pile-up in San Francisco in November...

electrek.co

Video here:

Exclusive: Surveillance Footage of Tesla Crash on SF’s Bay Bridge Hours After Elon Musk Announces "Self-Driving" Feature

Elon Musk has said Tesla’s problematic autopilot features are “really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money or worth basically zero.”

theintercept.com

Mardak · Jan 11, 2023

MarcG said:
caused by phantom braking of FSD v11

Unless the driver was also a Tesla employee getting FSD Beta 11 while also running his own law practice, most likely it wasn't single stack.

Knightshade · Jan 11, 2023

MarcG said:
Might want to wait a while before v11 is released.. apparently this 8-car pileup was caused by phantom braking of FSD v11:

Footage of Tesla phantom braking causing 8-car crash pile-up emerges

Footage of the Tesla vehicle allegedly on “Full Self-Driving” that caused an eight-car crash pile-up in San Francisco in November...

electrek.co

Video here:

Exclusive: Surveillance Footage of Tesla Crash on SF’s Bay Bridge Hours After Elon Musk Announces "Self-Driving" Feature

Elon Musk has said Tesla’s problematic autopilot features are “really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money or worth basically zero.”

theintercept.com

No, it really wasn't.

A) V11 isn't available to the public yet
B) If he was on any L2 driver aid at all it was NoA/AP, not FSD, given the road/location
C) It was "caused" by people tailgating and going too fast- and an inattentive driver in the Tesla as well.

EVNow · Jan 11, 2023

MarcG said:
Might want to wait a while before v11 is released.. apparently this 8-car pileup was caused by phantom braking of FSD v11:

No it was not. There isn't any proof even AP was being used, let alone it was one of the ~100 employee cars that have V11 now.

ps : Wow, you are a member from 2014 and yet you can't spot obvious FUD ?

mtbwalt · Jan 11, 2023

I’m on fsd beta and rarely my car brakes for little reason. It is not slamming on the brakes but decelerating at a little less than the regen brake level.

When it does and there is clearly no reason, I just goose the accelerator a little to bring it back to speed. Typically lose 2-4 mph before I am accelerating back.

It’s a mild annoyance. Not sure why anyone would just let fsd continue braking in traffic for no reason. Just to prove a point or something? I mean I get that we are shooting for autonomy but people talk about phantom braking like there is no remedy. Just rest your foot on the accelerator and goose it if it brakes. It usually recovers in seconds back to cruising speed.

tivoboy · Jan 11, 2023

mtbwalt said:
I’m on fsd beta and rarely my car brakes for little reason. It is not slamming on the brakes but decelerating at a little less than the regen brake level.

When it does and there is clearly no reason, I just goose the accelerator a little to bring it back to speed. Typically lose 2-4 mph before I am accelerating back.

It’s a mild annoyance. Not sure why anyone would just let fsd continue braking in traffic for no reason. Just to prove a point or something? I mean I get that we are shooting for autonomy but people talk about phantom braking like there is no remedy. Just rest your foot on the accelerator and goose it if it brakes. It usually recovers in seconds back to cruising speed.

I've had hard braking before, certainly more than regen braking but not nose diving braking. A very rapid deceleration on the highway at speed from say 70 to 25 in a short distance is very not funny.. i've only let it ride it out once as there was nobody behind me or around much.. but scary NTL

Gbills · Jan 11, 2023

tivoboy said:
I've had hard braking before, certainly more than regen braking but not nose diving braking. A very rapid deceleration on the highway at speed from say 70 to 25 in a short distance is very not funny.. i've only let it ride it out once as there was nobody behind me or around much.. but scary NTL

Go back and look at the video. This vehicle started in the second from the left lane when the so called phantom breaking occurred. He slows and move to the next lane left with the left turn signal blinking. The car in that lane had plenty of time to slow some more as did the driver in the Tesla had time to react and speed up. It could be lack of knowledge on what to do or panic or something else. I replied this as information under the wrong post.

swedge · Jan 11, 2023

MarcG said:
8-car pileup was caused by phantom braking of FSD...

No it was not. FSD beta is not available on the Bay Bridge. I verified this fact on Monday.

Even with an FSD beta version installed, the car switches out of beta and into standard (or enhanced) autopilot on freeways like Interstate 80 over the Bay Bridge.

Oh, and as others have already pointed out, V11 is vaporware at this point, not released yet externally.

SW

Porkalletta · Jan 12, 2023

tivoboy said:
I've had hard braking before, certainly more than regen braking but not nose diving braking. A very rapid deceleration on the highway at speed from say 70 to 25 in a short distance is very not funny.. i've only let it ride it out once as there was nobody behind me or around much.. but scary NTL

I always get hard braking on the CA 101 going slightly downhill and a bridge ahead over the highway. My MX probably thinks it's an obstruction every time. Always have to stay alert and aware even in Autopilot.

Mardak · Jan 13, 2023

willow_hiller said:
Given that it only exists on employee vehicles at the moment, is it possible that the holdup is due to additional hardware being needed, rather than additional software work?

If these are HW4 cameras, looks like it's reducing the number of outside cameras from 8 to 7 (1514448-00-H ASSY, TRIPLE CAMERA, RVM, MY in front becomes 1806315-00-A ASY, FORWARD BI-CAM, MY) at higher resolution with wider field of view, and seemingly retrofittable to existing camera placement:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613802221589909504

But seems unlikely FSD Beta 11 will need the new hardware if it's planning for wide release later next week.

powertoold · Jan 13, 2023

2025 breaking news: Tesla will be only be using one camera, dubbed the Eye of Sauron, to control the One Stack to rule them all

Mardak · Jan 13, 2023

powertoold said:
Tesla will be only be using one camera

Hah

Tesla probably does want to keep reducing the number of parts, so if they can get the same/better coverage with fewer cameras, they might do so with the dedicated robotaxi vehicle.

Reducing camera locations also simplifies keeping the cameras clean where that HW4 tweet also indicates B-pillar getting a heating element, and that would address one of my most common "NoA unavailable" situations these days if I forget to manually wipe off the ice/snow in the morning on the pillar. Presumably this could have been slightly better with FSD Beta 11's single stack depending on how much ice was there as the unified 360º understanding can compensate a bit with motion and views from other cameras.

tmoz · Jan 13, 2023

Mardak said:
If these are HW4 cameras, looks like it's reducing the number of outside cameras from 8 to 7 (1514448-00-H ASSY, TRIPLE CAMERA, RVM, MY in front becomes 1806315-00-A ASY, FORWARD BI-CAM, MY) at higher resolution with wider field of view, and seemingly retrofittable to existing camera placement:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613802221589909504

But seems unlikely FSD Beta 11 will need the new hardware if it's planning for wide release later next week.

Anyone know what Cz means?

FSD Beta v11.x

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