FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Canceled subscribers who gave up after waiting on promises, loyal Tesla buyers who got FSD much less sub 10k and not willing to pay a whopping 15k when getting a newer Tesla.

STUtoday whatever mate. FSD isn’t available in backwards or upside down countries yet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637598141183668224

 

[ChaoticNeutral]

Tell us how it works.

I don’t know how it works, but I imagine fancy coding…Or are you asking for a relative grading of how v11.3.2 works compared to 10.69?

 

[dramsey]

Were you using agile or similar development processes? I don't know what their approach is at Tesla.

Only intermittently. Most of the time just individual programmers in a room coding C++, later moving to Java, MySQL, JavaScript, etc.

My admittedly brief impression of “agile development” could be summarized as “specifications and milestones are for the weak”, although that’s probably just old-fartism on my part.

 

[Mardak]

I burned checks on the software tab yesterday morning on both our Y and our 3 and just got the "up to date" notice. But with no further attention from me after noon yesterday, my app posted a notification to my iPhone that the update was ready to install on my Y a minute before midnight MDT

Just to recap, Tesla can configure software updates to be in a "push" or "pull" mode to different audiences, e.g., early access vs random rollouts. When an update is pushed to your vehicle, it ignores the 24-hour last-checked timer and should result in an app notification. Whereas checking from the Software screen pulls a status from Tesla's servers to determine if an update is available with a back-off to prevent the vehicle from checking too often.

So the only "burn" is really if Tesla puts a software update into "pull" within 24 hours of your checking, but as you experienced, you can still get an update sooner. Previous FSD Beta updates have been a mix of both although the typical behavior has been the former for earlier parts of the rollout and the latter for minor bug fixes that aren't in a rush.

 

[zoomer0056]

I don’t know how it works, but I imagine fancy coding…Or are you asking for a relative grading of how v11.3.2 works compared to 10.69?

No no . . . how is it working out for you functionally, not how its programmed.

 

[gtg465x]

Always assertive.

IMO assertive has always performed better in all iterations of FSD Beta since 10.3.

I really wish there was a way to set following distance to max, but also have lane changes and turns be assertive. I have no problem making lane changes into small openings or pulling out into small gaps in traffic when necessary, but that doesn't mean I want to follow cars closely.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I really wish there was a way to set following distance to max, but also have lane changes and turns be assertive. I have no problem making lane changes into small openings or pulling out into small gaps in traffic when necessary, but that doesn't mean I want to follow cars closely.

I wish we could set to follow closer.

 

[EVNow]

My admittedly brief impression of “agile development” could be summarized as “specifications and milestones are for the weak”, although that’s probably just old-fartism on my part.

LOL. Definitely retired

There is a lot more rigor in agile than your idea of it.

What is Agile Software Development?

Agile gives organizations the ability to quickly create and respond to change in today's disruptive marketplace. Learn more at AgileAlliance.org.

www.agilealliance.org

 

[jabloomf1230]

I don't know anyone in real life that is registered to TeslaFi and I know maybe 60-70 Tesla owners (from clubs). It's a tiny percentage of people, But according to the NHTSA there are 362,758 Beta testers.

Again, that's also incorrect. That number represents all the cars affected by the FSD recall, which is the number of cars that either have already or could opt in to the FSD beta program.

 

[clydeiii]

Just downloaded and now am instaling 2022.45.11 (which has FSDb 11.3.2). I'm a nobody, so it's definitely going wide now.

 

[kabin]

Were you using agile or similar development processes? I don't know what their approach is at Tesla.

Whatever the automation team is using, it doesn't seem to work well for FSD.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Again, that's also incorrect. That number represents all the cars affected by the FSD recall, which is the number of cars that either have already or could opt in to the FSD beta program.

There are over 1.5 million Teslas that have purchased FSD in NA. I think you're digging to make that number smaller for some reason.

 

[MP3Mike]

Again, that's also incorrect. That number represents all the cars affected by the FSD recall, which is the number of cars that either have already or could opt in to the FSD beta program.

I don't think that is accurate. The report says this:

And they clarify that:

The subject population includes certain Model S, Model X, Model 3 and Model Y vehicles that have installed or are pending installation of a software release that contains the Autosteer on City Streets feature (“Full Self-Driving Beta” or “FSD Beta”).

So all ~362k have opted in, and have received the software, but may not have installed it yet. (But really, very few people put up with the software update prompt constantly coming up, and they just install the software.)

So I think it is safe to assume that the software is on ~362k vehicles.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I don't think that is accurate. The report says this:
View attachment 919530

And they clarify that:



So all ~362k have opted in, and have received the software, but may not have installed it yet. (But really, very few people put up with the software update prompt constantly coming up, and they just install the software.)

So I think it is safe to assume that the software is on ~362k vehicles.

Right. Unless the stance is Tesla is lying to the public and the NHTSA, there's no grounds to believe otherwise.

 

[kabin]

I don't know anyone in real life that is registered to TeslaFi and I know maybe 60-70 Tesla owners (from clubs). It's a tiny percentage of people, But according to the NHTSA there are 362,758 Beta testers.

And probably rightly so.

 

[navels]

First, understand how the traditional software development process works.

Then recognize Tesla is doing something *nobody* else has done before. No, not even Waymo or Cruise.

Recognize they will run into unexpected snags. Setbacks. Issues that will require rewrites. Then adjust your expectations accordingly.

I think what is frustrating for me is that I know how all this stuff works and we would never give customers a release date that doesn't take all those factors into account. It's almost like Elon doesn't understand how traditional software development process works.

 

[dramsey]

LOL. Definitely retired

There is a lot more rigor in agile than your idea of it.

What is Agile Software Development?

Agile gives organizations the ability to quickly create and respond to change in today's disruptive marketplace. Learn more at AgileAlliance.org.

www.agilealliance.org

Pretty sure Tesla FSD team ain't agile, then. Agile principle #1: "Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software."

But seriously: the 12 principles of agile software development as shown here 12 Principles Behind the Agile Manifesto | Agile Alliance

...semm kinda, I dunno, nebulous? Take Agile principle #7: "Working software is the primary measure of progress." I mean, I started my professional career in the early 1980s and that was the metric then, too-- and this was procedural programming in Pascal and 68K assembler.

I suspect most modern programmers-- excuse, software engineers-- would do better to read a good book on patterns and anti-patterns. Then again: old fart.

 

[cowleggies]

Just downloaded and now am instaling 2022.45.11 (which has FSDb 11.3.2). I'm a nobody, so it's definitely going wide now.

Just out of curiosity, when did you get added to FSDb? I have been in since November, currently on 2022.44.30.10, and I didn't get an update on my check today

 

[nvx1977]

Pretty sure Tesla FSD team ain't agile, then. Agile principle #1: "Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software."

But seriously: the 12 principles of agile software development as shown here 12 Principles Behind the Agile Manifesto | Agile Alliance

...semm kinda, I dunno, nebulous? Take Agile principle #7: "Working software is the primary measure of progress." I mean, I started my professional career in the early 1980s and that was the metric then, too-- and this was procedural programming in Pascal and 68K assembler.

I suspect most modern programmers-- excuse, software engineers-- would do better to read a good book on patterns and anti-patterns. Then again: old fart.

Yeah, you're a waterfall guy. I started my career right when mainstream waterfall was dying out, so I have some experience with it. I'm sure there are still waterfall companies out there, but they wouldn't be considered mainstream tech today.

The dotcom boom of the late 90s and subsequent Internet explosion necessitated the agile approach. There were too many competitors doing what you were doing that if you took a ton of time to go thru your waterfall process, the market conditions have already changed, and your competitors have beat you to the goal.

Regarding your take on #7, sure, we all want working software. With agile, you're able to release production-quality software way faster. It may not be fully functional (as fully spec'd in your waterfall design docs), but you're out the door selling something of real value already. Further iterations fill in the other features.

The entire software industry pretty much runs on agile principles now, so yeah, there's def some old-fartisms in your comments, but that's ok. The world keeps evolving. If anything, Tesla has evolved agile into something even faster. Google some of the Joe Justice videos on Tesla if you want to learn how Tesla works. This was the first one I watched:

Joe worked at Tesla and is an agile consultant, so the fact that he was floored by Tesla's agility says a lot.

 

[Mardak]

I have been in since November, currently on 2022.44.30.10, and I didn't get an update on my check today

Other than those in early access, your original Safety Score or date of original FSD Beta do not seem relevant to the randomized rollout, which for 11.3.2 so far seems to be around 10%. In fact, those who have had FSD Beta since 10.2 are actually more likely to be in the 90% group still waiting vs long ago back in October 2021 when they/we were the majority of the test fleet getting these updates. But 10% of the 400k fleet eligible for FSD Beta is still 40k vehicles already.