FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[MARKM3]

Is it normal for 11.4 to be delayed this long? It's been out for two weeks now correct? How long does internal testing go when a step jump is done (2022x to 2023x)

 

[JohnB007]

Reference above - there's also a unique spot where a traffic light was removed about 6 weeks ago. Repaved and fresh lines with a jersey barrier in the middle now.

Both directions I get the "stopping for traffic control in 600, 500, 400, etc" and it applies the brakes until I stalk down or press the accelerator.

Seems as though map data is still king and the absence of a negative = default to a positive.

There is no infrastructure from the signals left. If you were driving it for the first time you would never have known there was a signal.

Yup I have this one too. It's on a short bridge over rail. Two years ago, it was on construction, so they had temporary traffic lights placed there for couple of months. Mapping data must have been updated back then, as now you see a faint line with no traffic light, but the car treats this line as if it was a stop sign...

I disengaged few times and voice reported this, but we'll find out if Tesla is actually doing any additional overlaying their own data on top of current version of the map.

 

[JulienW]

Is it normal for 11.4 to be delayed this long? It's been out for two weeks now correct? How long does internal testing go when a step jump is done (2022x to 2023x)

Internal is the opposite of out. There is no set timeframe for internal testing that we know of. I previously predicted that we would see hints of 11.4.1 internal early this week and an influencer release by this weekend. It may be another week but no one can know and all is just speculation and conjecture at best.

 

[jebinc]

What happened to 11.4.X?

“11.4.j” must have failed even the employee test.

 

[valem]

Seems unlikely to change any time soon.

I heard Elon say by the end of this year. if Elon said that, it must be true.

 

[mgs333]

Is it normal for 11.4 to be delayed this long? It's been out for two weeks now correct? How long does internal testing go when a step jump is done (2022x to 2023x)

It took more than 3 weeks to go from 11.3 to 11.3.1.

Granted, 11.3 was a major update so you'd think 11.4.1 wouldn't take as long but no one knows for sure.

 

[Dewg]

Found one intersection where FSDb full-on crashed (red hands of death etc). Visualizations went back to regular AP ones, but with no way to enable TACC/AP. Was a while before FSDb came back. I went past the same intersection on the way back, and FSDb crashed again. After the second time I couldn't enable FSDb for the rest of the evening, even after parking for a few minutes. Hopefully it comes back tomorrow, after the car goes to sleep fully.

Feels like a camera failure. If one of your cameras fail, this is the behavior. Could be a loose wiring harness to the camera. When it happens again, press the voice button and say "bug report" (I've read some say that with 11.3.6 you just say "bug"). Open a ticket and reference the report you just created. That will give service the telemetry and diags at the time.

 

[jabloomf1230]

It took more than 3 weeks to go from 11.3 to 11.3.1.

Granted, 11.3 was a major update so you'd think 11.4.1 wouldn't take as long but no one knows for sure.

True, but now Tesla has to address issues that have cropped up for both highway and city driving. 11.3.6 has the same problems on city streets that 10.69.x had. In addition, highway merges and lane changes need attention.

 

[aronth5]

Interesting test and results. I've had the impression, though not carefully tested as you did, that if the system cannot see your eyes it will then fall back to the steering wheel torque nag. There's no question that under some circumstances I get nags and I can cancel them with wheel torque. In other cases, it seems very happy if I'm looking forward for a long time without any significant torque on the wheel.

in this test, can you say that when your sunglasses were on and you report no nags, that during that interval you were or were not holding the wheel with detectable torque input?

Also for clarification, when you had your sunglasses on and you were looking "anywhere but the road for minutes at a time", was this just eyeball movement with your nose pretty much pointed forward, or were you moving your head position to different directions with no objection from the system?

I moved my head some but not a lot. While the sunglasses have the typical dark shade to them what I see has an amber tint. I wonder if that has any affect on the monitoring camera?

 

[aronth5]

“11.4.j” must have failed even the employee test.

The glass is half full answer is that testing is taking longer since 11.4 is not a point release and extra testing is required for the long list of release notes.

 

[jebinc]

The glass is half full answer is that testing is taking longer since 11.4 is not a point release and extra testing is required for the long list of release notes.

Or maybe they decided to move it to the larger font 2023.12.x branch.

 

[aronth5]

Or maybe they decided to move it to the larger font 2023.12.x branch.

Hopefully and that would also be a glass is half full reply rather than what someone we know said: "11.4.j” must have failed even the employee test."

 

[JulienW]

Or maybe they decided to move it to the larger font 2023.12.x branch.

You mean like 11.4.1?

Hope it is moved to 23.12.x for the left button customization. And might kinda could use the larger font too.

 

[Supcom]

You mean like 11.4.1?

Hope it is moved to 23.12.x for the left button customization. And might kinda could use the larger font too.

Not likely. 11.4 is based on 2023.6 and almost certainly will stay that way.

 

[JulienW]

Not likely. 11.4 is based on 2023.6 and almost certainly will stay that way.

Oh I agree but hope springs eternal. So doesn't hurt to hope even if it is unlikely.

However at some point Tesla needs to unify or reach parity if they are going to sell FSD subscriptions.

 

[fasteddie7]

Oh I agree but hope springs eternal. So doesn't hurt to hope even if it is unlikely.

However at some point Tesla needs to unify or reach parity if they are going to sell FSD subscriptions.

I find it so odd that FSD and feature releases are separated. Is it a big thing, where it's easier to hunt down bugs if the two are separated? I'm new to FSD beta, for those that have been a part of it for a while, how long after a new feature releases does it come to the FSD beta branch?

 

[fcastrillo86]

Just generalizing, the FSD builds seem to be behind about 2-4 months. They were briefly synced up when the holiday update came out (2022.44.x), but then production builds moved ahead while most of us with FSD Beta are stuck at 2022.45.x

 

[aronth5]

Massachusett's revised Vulnerable Road User (VRU) law requires a 4 ft clearance. I wonder if Tesla will try and vary the clearance based on different state laws or simply adopt 4 ft clearance as a standard. IMO FSD's clearance today is not adequate plus it doesn't move over soon enough and moves back too soon. I've often seen pedestrians and cyclists react with concern to FSD's current behavior.
New Massachusetts law protects “vulnerable” road users

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Massachusett's revised Vulnerable Road User (VRU) law requires a 4 ft clearance. I wonder if Tesla will try and vary the clearance based on different state laws or simply adopt 4 ft clearance as a standard. IMO FSD's clearance today is not adequate plus it doesn't move over soon enough and moves back too soon. I've often seen pedestrians and cyclists react with concern to FSD's current behavior.
New Massachusetts law protects “vulnerable” road users

In California you must change lanes to provide room when passing a cyclist, if a lane is available (new for 2023). 3 foot otherwise.

It’s unclear to me that this will be enforced, if a bike lane exists. Though there is nothing mentioned about that case of course.

 

[aronth5]

In California you must change lanes to provide room when passing a cyclist, if a lane is available (new for 2023). 3 foot otherwise.

It’s unclear to me that this will be enforced, if a bike lane exists. Though there is nothing mentioned about that case of course.

Not many bike lanes in Mass compared to California. My town has less than a mile marked as bike lanes compared to 220 miles of roads.