FSD Beta v11.x

powertoold · May 12, 2023

Knightshade said:
Visualizations are done by the MCU last I knew- not the AP/FSD hardware...This previously came up when they released the "FSD preview" visualizations for only HW3 cars, even though HW2.5 cars could've done them just as easily since the MCU was the same...

The visualizations represent the outputs of the NN. Elon said the V11 visualizations crashed a lot trying to render all the outputs.

Just one look at the 11.4.1 visualizations, you can tell it's way more detailed than 11.3.6, especially wrt to parking lots:

Dutchie · May 12, 2023

Elon is always hyping the next update. “So many improvements- should have arguably been called V12”
Looking at Chuck’s video, we are again bound bound for yet another disappointment. Now Elon is slowely starting to hype the real V12 coming later this year.

I like FSD Beta. It is a nice ADAS - but it is no more than that. I am losing hope that it will ever be more than that.

LowlyOilBurner · May 12, 2023

clydeiii said:
These sorts of posts are ridiculous.

How so? I mean, the compute power on paper of HW4 isn’t really that much greater than HW3, so I get that. The cameras are definitely better than HW3, that’s a no-brainer.

EVNow · May 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
Sure, there are edge cases (sorry, but the province of Ontario is that), but for those in mainland USA, it should be simpler.

Not true. There are places that need 3 people, not two in WA. There are time restrictions in some places.

A confirmation for using HOV at the time of lane change would be good (and remember that for the rest of the drive on the road).

powertoold · May 12, 2023

Dutchie said:
Elon is always hyping the next update. “So many improvements- should have arguably been called V12”
Looking at Chuck’s video, we are again bound bound for yet another disappointment. Now Elon is slowely starting to hype the real V12 coming later this year.

I like FSD Beta. It is a nice ADAS - but it is no more than that. I am losing hope that it will ever be more than that.

Every time Elon talks about major architectural improvements, the first version always comes out with lots of "little" bugs.

With 11.4.1, we can see Tesla starting to prepare for parking lots. At the same time, they loosened FSD's decision making wrt to lane changes / selection (skipping lanes and whatnot), so it's bound to create lots of issues on the first release.

FSD is the most ridiculous / challenging software endeavor ever undertaken. All the seemingly "obvious" mistakes the car makes in reality just underline the challenge.

totoro722 · May 12, 2023

EVNow said:
Not true. There are places that need 3 people, not two in WA. There are time restrictions in some places.

A confirmation for using HOV at the time of lane change would be good (and remember that for the rest of the drive on the road).

View attachment 937165

Wow. that is confusing.

powertoold · May 12, 2023

This is the craziest, albeit legal and unnecessary, smoothest, and anxiety inducing maneuver I've ever seen from FSD. It was about 1-2 inches from hitting the curb island at 30mph. I've driven around this area, and those curb islands are no-joke. I would expect a car to rollover if it runs over those curbs at speed. At the end, the car even made the right turn in the smoothest way possible lol:

swedge · May 12, 2023

sleepydoc said:
My dog sits in the front seat - there’s no car seat setting for the front seat. (At least there wasn’t, I haven’t checked in a while)

Ah, Dog is your co-pilot. ;-)

WilliamG · May 12, 2023

EVNow said:
Not true. There are places that need 3 people, not two in WA. There are time restrictions in some places.

A confirmation for using HOV at the time of lane change would be good (and remember that for the rest of the drive on the road).

View attachment 937165

I don't see the issue? The car knows the time of day, and the car knows how many people are in it. This just requires a little bit of programming for these types of carpool lanes, - seems simple enough to me.

*edit*

If FSD is ever to be fully realized, this sort of thing has to happen.

rlsd · May 12, 2023

JulienW said:
ULTs

I usually avoid difficult ULT. I'd rather go around the blocks. I don't blame FSD for this situation. And I don't see those ULTs often in California.
I just want FSD to make PLTs and right turns work right first.

kabin · May 12, 2023

Here's one of those scenarios where FSD seemingly can't respond quick enough. Hard to see how HW3 could ever be as safe as a human.

swedge · May 12, 2023

As 11.4 appears to be ready to replace 11.3 soon ("two weeks"???) , I'm going to take a moment to memorialize some of the 11.3.6 fails I see on my regular routes.

• The grey wheel FSD available icon blinks, and FSD won't engage. This not only makes it hard to test FSD, but is downright dangerous.
• Still ignores "Oncoming Traffic Does Not Stop" sign, at a 3 way stop at a 4 way intersection.
• Still Chooses the center of the road where the lane marking between the two available lanes has mostly faded away, so the car blocks a free right turn lane while it waits at the light. I have to disengage every time, or my "honk score" will soar when other annoyed drivers honk at me.
• Fails to merge onto the freeway when the onramp turns into an off-ramp, so the car just takes the exit after some jerky indecision.
• Thinks one onramp has a speed limit of 30 till very close to merge area, failing to match freeway speed.
• Slow to change lanes when requested by blinker lever.
• Gives too short a warning before starting automatic lane change. This and the requested land change timing should be similar.
• Minimize lane changes setting should be remembered between drives. I prefer to choose lanes myself, because when it is making automatic lane changes, as the safety pilot I must check the new lane myself, as well as the other cars nearby who might be changing to that lane or approaching fast from behind. Now! It is not possible and very uncomfortable to try.
• Still gets confused when it sees a cross-street stop light and stops hard in the middle of one particular large and oddly angled intersection.
• Pauses for a two count at all stop signs. One beat would be plenty, and if it doesn't satisfy the NHSTA, then we need to fix the NHSTA, not FSD.
• This last applies to all AutoPilot modes, I think, so don't get me started on how dumb it seem to use the same torque sensing for all of 1) attention monitoring and 2) disengagement and 3) steering the car when AP is disengaged.

I am mostly happy with the new FSD-on-highway in 11.3.6, as it handles curves much better, and speed reductions on sharp off ramps. I was never comfortable with NoA taking interchanges, now I am. The same better handling of curves applies to two lane curvy roads too. I am thinking my wife is nearly ready to opt-in for FSD in her profile. She wouldn't use it on city streets at all, but the highway portion may soon prove acceptable to her, which would be a major milestone and an accomplishment for the FSD team.

OK, now that I got all that off my chest, I'm ready for round 11.4.X .

PR0FESSOR · May 12, 2023

I woke up this morning with an offer to install 11.4.1 on my 2023 MSP. This is my first official software update, and I went from having no FSD to 11.4.1 today after the install. I do not have anything to compare this version of FSD to since it is my first version of FSD, but out of roughly two hours and thirty minutes of FSD driving today, I intervened roughly seven times, all of them on city streets. The highway performance was absolutely flawless. I live in a rural area, and FSD seemed to have problems with merging left when right lanes were ending and it took roundabouts at an uncomfortably high speed for me (I have FSD on average aggressiveness). Interestingly enough, I did not have to request FSD beta and I did not have any safety score.

Joe

Tronguy · May 12, 2023

PR0FESSOR said:
I woke up this morning with an offer to install 11.4.1 on my 2023 MSP. This is my first official software update, and I went from having no FSD to 11.4.1 today after the install. I do not have anything to compare this version of FSD to since it is my first version of FSD, but out of roughly two hours and thirty minutes of FSD driving today, I intervened roughly seven times, all of them on city streets. The highway performance was absolutely flawless. I live in a rural area, and FSD seemed to have problems with merging left when right lanes were ending and it took roundabouts at an uncomfortably high speed for me (I have FSD on average aggressiveness). Interestingly enough, I did not have to request FSD beta and I did not have any safety score.

Joe

@professor,

Welcome to the community!

Minor bits. First, you appear to have joined all the YouTubers in terms of getting a copy of 11.4.1. They (like Chuck, of "Chucks's Unprotected Left Turn fame) all get copies before the general public does. AFAIK, nobody else on this TMC thread has gotten a copy; we were all thinking a minimum of at least another week before it would become GA. And, when it became GA, it would be version 11.4.2 with some additional bugs removed.

This means, of course, that we're all insanely jealous.

While none of us have 11.4.anything, there's the usual commentary on the YouTuber's posted videos. It's all entertaining, but given the proclivity of some of the YouTubers to fudge things, not wildly useful. However, having said that, it's the regressions (i.e., bugs not previously in evidence or previously killed, but back again) that get people excited, and there's some indications that 11.4 has some of those.

As you've noticed, City Streets has most of the issues, although the last couple of videos show some problems on highways, although that's a lot cleaner.

The safety score requirements were cancelled, if memory serves, late last year. Up until your post, the general rule has been that one simply requests FSD-b; then, when the applicable release winds its way down to the general community, not only do the long-time testers get it, so do the people who've requested FSD-b. Last time this happened for the requesters was just before Xmas, along with all the other holiday release stuff. So, your getting the Beta without requesting it.. That's new. And unusual.

Knightshade · May 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
I don't see the issue? The car knows the time of day, and the car knows how many people are in it. This just requires a little bit of programming for these types of carpool lanes, - seems simple enough to me.

It still can't even get speed limits right.... see Chucks video right above here where it repeatedly tried dropping well below the posted limit on highways... and you think they can get it to know and correctly apply all the myriad different conditions for using an HOV lane that vary not just by state, but by different occupancy standards, different roads, different times, different days of the week, and sometimes aren't even the same on the same road in different places- and sometimes depend on if your car has a given sticker, license plate, or transponder? That seems the opposite of simple.

WilliamG said:
If FSD is ever to be fully realized, this sort of thing has to happen.

Why? Use of HOV lanes is not required for FSD at all

rlsd · May 12, 2023

I think Tesla no longer needs to give priority to early testers like Chuck Cook, Whole Mars Catalog,... These people were helpful in the past. But now we are at a different milestone. Their repeated tests don't cover daily use. I think their tests are performed mostly in low traffic zones and light traffic. FSD should be tested in areas having high traffic and having speed limit at least 40 mph. Tesla should hire more employees to test FSD. The employees should take time to perform the tests. After testing by employees, FSD should be given to all FSD users. Tesla should publish short video clips recorded by employees showing how FSD performs in different traffic zones. We don't have time to watch long videos post by volunteers.

EVNow · May 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
I don't see the issue? The car knows the time of day, and the car knows how many people are in it. This just requires a little bit of programming for these types of carpool lanes, - seems simple enough to me.

*edit*

If FSD is ever to be fully realized, this sort of thing has to happen.

Sure - but not as simple as you thought it was. You need that metadata first maintained for all the highways in US - which may not even be available with any 3rd party.

BTW, are you guys doing any testing this weekend?

fasteddie7 · May 12, 2023

Tronguy said:
@professor,

Minor bits. First, you appear to have joined all the YouTubers in terms of getting a copy of 11.4.1.

might be a hardware 4 thing, as I’m only a small nobody YouTuber and I received it also after sitting on factory firmware. Perhaps it has more to do with wanting to get it out to hardware 4 for analysis than YouTube status now.

powertoold · May 12, 2023

fasteddie7 said:
might be a hardware 4 thing, as I’m only a small nobody YouTuber and I received it also after sitting on factory firmware. Perhaps it has more to do with wanting to get it out to hardware 4 for analysis than YouTube status now.

Sorry if I missed some updates on this thread, but are we saying that HW4 is getting 11.4.1 and FSDb works on HW4 now?

Seems like major news?

wiegandster · May 12, 2023

powertoold said:
This is the craziest, albeit legal and unnecessary, smoothest, and anxiety inducing maneuver I've ever seen from FSD. It was about 1-2 inches from hitting the curb island at 30mph. I've driven around this area, and those curb islands are no-joke. I would expect a car to rollover if it runs over those curbs at speed. At the end, the car even made the right turn in the smoothest way possible lol:

I live on 10th street and every morning on the way to work it tries to switch into that lane - I keep stopping the manevour and reporting it. I was hoping this update would stop it lol

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