FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[JHCCAZ]

What about breakfast? Breakfast is purported to be the most important meal of the day! ️

Because criticizing donuts for breakfast would be totally crazy.
It never even occurred to me.

 

[lascavarian]

"Side Front Camera" A-pillar-general location/alignment (side mirror) and even farther than a human would lean forward to see around a tough corner.

Camera POV - Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr

Via: Mobileye CES talk (see bottom of this post) A pretty interesting graphic of the camera placement and degrees of visibility (FOV) of Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr. - Of note: front camera (2 vs 3), Side Front Camera on mirror vs B-pillar. - "7 long range cameras...

teslamotorsclub.com

I’ll just offer that the position of the cameras is ok provided the nose of the vehicle is short enough that “creep“ mode can be used more effectively. When we lean forward we do it because there is a sense that it is unsafe to move the whole vehicle further into potential traffic. Could highland have a more blunt nose

You can change the form of the camera placement or you can charge the form where the cameras are placed. Either way can improve the effectiveness of “creep” mode.

 

[willow_hiller]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1668877942141640704

 

[JHCCAZ]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1668877942141640704

So long 11 4.3 we hardly knew ya

 

[jebinc]

So long 11 4.3 we hardly knew ya

“Don’t let the door,” 11.4.3….

 

[Joboo7777]

Trying this tomorrow, I have just the spot where the same behavior you described has been happening since 11.4.2. Definitely a regression

It’s unfortunate minimize lane changes can’t be permanently selected. When I remember to, I use this setting quite often and find my “teenage driver” does a better job.

 

[fasteddie7]

I got 11.4.3 last night and to my surprise I have vision parking sensors on HW4. Wasn't expecting that. Also, my test route was surprisingly nearly flawless. I did t expect such a huge improvement after reading some others experiences with it and how I didn't see much improvement from 11.4.1 to 11.4.2

 

[sleepydoc]

I read someone confirm that they compared them, and indeed they're identical.

EDIT: from notateslaapp.com:
"The release notes remain the same as the previous (Beta 11.4.2) revision."

But if I got added to your "well placed" ignore list, maybe someone else will forward this

From my recollection, the release notes never change for point versions so we're left to try and figure out what differences there are between them. Traditionally (and Tesla has historically followed this most of the time,) a 'point' release is a minor feature change and/or bug fixes and a 'point point' (i.e. 11.4.2 to 11.4.3) would almost certainly not have anything beyond minor bug fixes.

edit - saw @fasteddie7 's post after writing this - see above!

 

[legendsk]

From my recollection, the release notes never change for point versions so we're left to try and figure out what differences there are between them. Traditionally (and Tesla has historically followed this most of the time,) a 'point' release is a minor feature change and/or bug fixes and a 'point point' (i.e. 11.4.2 to 11.4.3) would almost certainly not have anything beyond minor bug fixes.

edit - saw @fasteddie7 's post after writing this - see above!

Drat! That's bad news for me. 2023.7.10 made the behavior of my 2022 MYLR the worst it has been since I got the car a year ago. Major, major big, bad bugs - on a 2 lane highway, suddenly whipping into the left oncoming lane or upon meeting another vehicle, slamming to a full hard dead stop and sitting there until the accelerator is pressed. Or on any street, blowing through stop signs at 45 mph with heavy cross traffic that doesn't have stops at all. When I put groceries in the trunk, I have to pack them carefully so the violent acceleration and deceleration and hard turns at up to 50 mph won't slam them together breaking glass jars and opening cans of dog food - yes really.

Last night it updated from 2023.7.10 to 2023.7.15, so I had some hope that it might help, but now you tell me, at best it's only going to fix some minor bugs. Ah well, perhaps fart noises and light shows will be improved. . . . . . . .

 

[Z_Lynx]

11.4.2 started biasing hard to the left at the stop sign where I have to turn left out of my residential road, onto another unstriped neighborhood feeder road.

Same here, on 11.4.2 consistently almost in (or in) the left lane for the left turn at a stop sign. This, coupled with a return to driving down the center of the unmarked road (in which 11.3.6 had finally started tracking to the right on the unmarked road), was unwelcome.

 

[rlsd]

I tested 11.4.3 early this morning. I drove to work than drove back home.
No regression. Neighborhood turns are accurate, not jerking, but not very smooth yet.

Still late left lane changing to turn into 2 turning lanes to freeway. It crossed the solid white line to get into the rightmost turning lane. It's still better than 11.4.1 at the same spot (late left lane changing and crossing the solid white line to get to the leftmost turning lane). Probably FSD does not anticipate this situation: leftmost lane on the road changes to 2 left turning lanes to freeway. FSD kept staying on the second lane on the road and missed the chance to make left turn.

 

[dflowerz]

Tried 11.4.3 at my 4 way stop and it did a little better. With 11.4.2 it started doing this creeping ahead at the stop which took way too long, and no creeping was needed since it was a 4 way stop with good visibility in all directions. With 11.4.3 it still did the unnecessary creeping but for much less time. Once it started the left turn it briefly paused mid-turn like it was confused but then quickly did the turn. So 11.4.3 is far from perfect but at least the behavior is good enough to not really need an intervention. So a slight improvement overall.

 

[sleepydoc]

Tried 11.4.3 at my 4 way stop and it did a little better. With 11.4.2 it started doing this creeping ahead at the stop which took way too long, and no creeping was needed since it was a 4 way stop with good visibility in all directions. With 11.4.3 it still did the unnecessary creeping but for much less time. Once it started the left turn it briefly paused mid-turn like it was confused but then quickly did the turn. So 11.4.3 is far from perfect but at least the behavior is good enough to not really need an intervention. So a slight improvement overall.

a few/several versions ago FSD would do something similar - after a stop sign it would slowly advance, creeping into the intersection and not 'committing' until it was half way through. At that point you're in the middle of the intersection so if it's not clear you're gonna get creamed. after a certain point you're committed and need to just go.

That seemed to improve with recent releases. To bad it's returned.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I got the soon to be outdated 11.4.3 about 6 pm yesterday.
Promptly took a 70 mile trip both highways and city.
I didn't have to intervene once. I don't think I want to install 11.4.4 when it comes out.

 

[heapmaster]

Lol - new visualizations felt threatened and raised cone shields. This was after I backed out of a parking spot in a carpark.

View attachment 946792

And I thought my car turning into the tesla semi was bad...

 

[Joboo7777]

I’m currently running 11.4.3 on 2023 M3 with HW3. As I approach a major intersection with multiple turning lanes from each side of intersection I’m planning to make a right turn(right on red is legal). At the time I approached the Intersection I have a red light and the opposing traffic has a green arrow making a left on to the road I’m going to make a right on. FSDb rolls up to the Intersection and continues to crawl quickly as if it’s going to make the right turn while opposing traffic has the green arrow. It felt so uncomfortable that I disengaged FSDb. To be honest I think it happened even before 11.4.3. I’m not sure if the car would have eventually yielded to the on coming traffic. It definitely felt like it wasn’t going to stop making the right turn. And I didn’t want to see what it would do since there was a good chance if the car didn’t stop I would have hit oncoming traffic. Anyone else have this issue? Hopefully I explained it well.

Thanks
John

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Let me simplify your poll and make it less unbalanced:

Rate FSDj on the following scale:

-1. I drove my Tesla off a cliff because of it.
0. Meh
1. My Tesla drove me off a cliff because of it.

There… how’s that?

0. OK
1. Fair
2. Meh
3. Disappointing
4. Useless
5. Bad
6. Maddening
7. Junk
8. Crap
9. Hate
10. Poison

Studiously avoiding hard profanity, which is the easy way out

 

[WilliamG]

So here's today's update on 11.4.3, - my first and only two drives of the day, which I felt comfortable for collectively about 20 seconds on before disabling FSDj.

1.) Driving down a road that's straight and wide, yellow lanes - and has plenty of visibility, the type that FSD normally never has trouble with. I had a left turn (no green arrow), the car moved into the turn lane, and then came to a complete stop, on a green light, with no cars coming the other direction. It then stated in the display something to the effect of "Stopped for Traffic Control. Press the Accelerator to continue." Those were roughly the words. I remember "traffic control" specifically, and asking me to press the pedal. What on earth? I hit the pedal, it turned left, and then immediately came to a complete stop in its own lane when a car came towards me on the side street, because you know, it doesn't know the width of itself.

2.) This next one was a DOOZY. I was leaving Northgate (just outside Seattle, for those wondering), and getting on the on-ramp to I5 back to Seattle, (the ramp right by the Best Buy, if you want to repeat this). I saw the flashing sign getting onto this ramp saying that you had to wait for the green light up ahead to go (i.e. metering in effect), and I know this green light/red light setup for traffic flow is on a sharp bend. Well, of course the car didn't read that first sign, it just went round the bend onto I5 pretty briskly, - it then saw the red light LATE, slowed down dramatically, but NOT fast enough to not run the red light by about 10 ft, and then - because the car was past the red light and I guess could no longer see it clearly (even though it should), - just kept going and zipped down onto I5. Wow. Just. Wow.

 

[jebinc]

So here's today's update on 11.4.3, - my first and only two drives of the day, which I felt comfortable for collectively about 20 seconds on before disabling FSDj.

1.) Driving down a road that's straight and wide, yellow lanes - and has plenty of visibility, the type that FSD normally never has trouble with. I had a left turn (no green arrow), the car moved into the turn lane, and then came to a complete stop, on a green light, with no cars coming the other direction. It then stated in the display something to the effect of "Stopped for Traffic Control. Press the Accelerator to continue." Those were roughly the words. I remember "traffic control" specifically, and asking me to press the pedal. What on earth? I hit the pedal, it turned left, and then immediately came to a complete stop in its own lane when a car came towards me on the side street, because you know, it doesn't know the width of itself.

2.) This next one was a DOOZY. I was leaving Northgate (just outside Seattle, for those wondering), and getting on the on-ramp to I5 back to Seattle, (the ramp right by the Best Buy, if you want to repeat this). I saw the flashing sign getting onto this ramp saying that you had to wait for the green light up ahead to go (i.e. metering in effect), and I know this green light/red light setup for traffic flow is on a sharp bend. Well, of course the car didn't read that first sign, it just went round the bend onto I5 pretty briskly, - it then saw the red light LATE, slowed down dramatically, but NOT fast enough to not run the red light by about 10 ft, and then - because the car was past the red light and I guess could no longer see it clearly (even though it should), - just kept going and zipped down onto I5. Wow. Just. Wow.

Sounds like a perfect driving experience, you should record it and send it to Whole Mars….

 

[EVNow]

Well, others, like Sleepy, resort to name calling and personal attacks and the mod have ended those posts as well - as doing so violates forums rules. Non team Junk members are not above the law, either.

I don't think this has anything to do with FSD at all.