FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Tronguy]

Are you saying the car activated the washer spray on its own? I've never seen that before.

Had that happen on more that 11.4.7.2; it's been pretty regular since, I think, 11.3.x.

 

[Ramphex]

Are you saying the car activated the washer spray on its own? I've never seen that before.

Only had that happen to me when the windshield was dirty, it said it’s cleaning the windshield. With the recent updates it just dry wipes the clean windshield without any prompts. Also doesn’t work when it actually rains. I’ve had auto wipers turned off after about a week of trying to troubleshoot it with two wheel resets, sleep, etc

 

[jabloomf1230]

FSD definitely can have cancer recurrence. The viruses in its brain can have different mutations. We should treat FSD bugs like treating COVID.

I tried pouring bleach into the wiper fluid reservoir, but it didn't help a bit.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Maybe when 12.0 arrives I will try it out.

A recipe for disappointment, most likely?

Realistically, what can we possibly expect? Look at where we were two years ago and where things are now. Some improvements for sure, but not leaps and bounds - which unfortunately is what is needed.

 

[jebinc]

I haven't even tried 11.4.7.2 Have had it for over a week but just not that motivated, as for sure it will be similar and still have the same issues it already had. Maybe when 12.0 arrives I will try it out.

Wise person! I waited four days; tried it twice on the forth day, and turned said (sh)it off on the forth day. Junk v78.0 - Done.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Maybe when 12.0 arrives I will try it out.

A recipe for disappointment, most likely?

To be clear, I'm saying that somehow delaying in the hopes that something will come along that you're happy with is not a good plan.

You should use what is there selectively and learn where it can be helpful, and where it is dangerous or useless. And then only use it where it is helpful and forget about the rest.

When a new version comes along, you can explore the envelope again. But I think it's very unlikely that that envelope is going to get much more capacious on any existing vehicles. Breakthroughs are always possible, and this is what people might argue, but technology typically does not progress and show breakthroughs while running on the same hardware. Just go to the next hardware in a few years which is ten times better. Why not? The cars built before don't matter anymore.

 

[Madmolecule]

So you don’t believe Elon’s promises relating to FSD but you do believe them when they relate to Tesla’s worth without FSD?

Edit: ditto everything @Dewg said.

I don’t believe anything Elon says anymore He’s a kickstarter charlatan. Yes, I did believe him in the early days. I even repeated some of his outlandish claims to my engineer friends. They laughed at me and said it did not make any sense. But I said no, he’s already got it working it’s just in final testing. The craziest one was when Elon said your car will remember its tire movements so it can find its way out of a parking garage with no GPS. I didn’t think he just pulled it out of his butt, but it was something they had actually got working.
I was just pointing out that statement for you people that are still believing.
What would be the adequate time after purchasing a product nearly 5 years ago for you people to believe it is fantasy. Seven years 10 years?
I also lost a tremendous amount of faith, and Tesla lost a when Andrej left. I believe he took a tremendous value of the company with him.
Do you still believe he’s into free speech?
Do you still believe he welcomes all critics?
Do you still believe he’s a humanitarian?
Do you still believe Tesla does not advertise? (that there’s not one single person upset they’re not getting their roadster)
do you believe that Tesla does not hire paid shills in their alleged war on bots?
Do you still believe he’s going to build a roadster?
Do you still believe in the $40,000 cyber truck?

 

[JulienW]

Are you saying the car activated the washer spray on its own? I've never seen that before.

Yes, this was added many months ago and is cleaning the windshield for camera visibility. It only happens when you are stopped (I believe) and you get a message saying it is cleaning the windshield for camera visibility. Unrelated to the dry wipes. Dry wipes happen anytime "out of the blue" with no message and no wiper fluid spray. It is more of a "I accidentally hit the wiper button" than a purposeful wipe.

 

[jebinc]

I don’t believe anything Elon says anymore He’s a kickstarter charlatan. Yes, I did believe him in the early days. I even repeated some of his outlandish claims to my engineer friends. They laughed at me and said it did not make any sense. But I said no, he’s already got it working it’s just in final testing. The craziest one was when Elon said your car will remember its tire movements so it can find its way out of a parking garage with no GPS. I didn’t think he just pulled it out of his butt, but it was something they had actually got working.
I was just pointing out that statement for you people that are still believing.
What would be the adequate time after purchasing a product nearly 5 years ago for you people to believe it is fantasy. Seven years 10 years?
I also lost a tremendous amount of faith, and Tesla lost a when Andrej left. I believe he took a tremendous value of the company with him.
Do you still believe he’s into free speech?
Do you still believe he welcomes all critics?
Do you still believe he’s a humanitarian?
Do you still believe Tesla does not advertise? (that there’s not one single person upset they’re not getting their roadster)
do you believe that Tesla does not hire paid shills in their alleged war on bots?
Do you still believe he’s going to build a roadster?
Do you still believe in the $40,000 cyber truck?

"He" is known here as, "The Great Charlatan"! And this is his Avatar.

 

[bedoig]

Yes, this was added many months ago and is cleaning the windshield for camera visibility. It only happens when you are stopped (I believe) and you get a message saying it is cleaning the windshield for camera visibility. Unrelated to the dry wipes. Dry wipes happen anytime "out of the blue" with no message and no wiper fluid spray. It is more of a "I accidentally hit the wiper button" than a purposeful wipe.

It will do it while moving at low speeds at least. My car does it 100% of the time if I engage beta within about 5 minutes after leaving a drive through touchless car wash

 

[JulienW]

It will do it while moving at low speeds at least. My car does it 100% of the time if I engage beta within about 5 minutes after leaving a drive through touchless car wash

Yea, seems auto car wash's must leave film on the windows. It is probably very opaque in ultraviolet or inferred (so you don't see it) and occludes the camera.

 

[Ramphex]

Can’t remember who it was but someone asked about the extra - numbers in the nav. Just checked my non-FSD Model Y and it’s dashed. NA-2022.44-14515-3282 on software 2023.32.7

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes, this was added many months ago and is cleaning the windshield for camera visibility. It only happens when you are stopped (I believe) and you get a message saying it is cleaning the windshield for camera visibility. Unrelated to the dry wipes. Dry wipes happen anytime "out of the blue" with no message and no wiper fluid spray. It is more of a "I accidentally hit the wiper button" than a purposeful wipe.

Pretty sure I’ve had it clean the windshield when I’m moving but it’s been. While so I can’t be sure.

 

[archae86]

Pretty sure I’ve had it clean the windshield when I’m moving but it’s been. While so I can’t be sure.

It has been months since I had one of these unrequested windshield spray+wipe, but as I recall I was stopped for each one--usually at a stop light.

Back to dry wipes. I run about one for thirty minutes of driving time. Usually, they coincide with an obvious difference in lighting (leaving the garage, turning into the sunset...

 

[sleepydoc]

It has been months since I had one of these unrequested windshield spray+wipe, but as I recall I was stopped for each one--usually at a stop light.

Back to dry wipes. I run about one for thirty minutes of driving time. Usually, they coincide with an obvious difference in lighting (leaving the garage, turning into the sunset...

It’s been quite variable for me. Some times it’s as you describe, one or two every 30 min. Other times it will start and keep going until I disable FSD or TACC.

I can definitely say that it isn’t always triggered by lighting changes. Very often I’ll be driving straight with no shadows, etc and the wipers will kick in. I’ve had it happen in sunny weather and overcast weather. Daytime and nighttime. Driving into the sun and away from it.

 

[ArchHamster]

Well, last week 11.4.7.2 almost got me into a crash. It would have technically been the other driver's fault but morally it would have been fsd beta and mine. I was coming up on a small traffick light intersection. The semi infront was turning into the left only turn lane. I needed to go straight. Fsd beta was going straight but it decided to turn on the right blinker because **** blinkers fsd beta has two blinkers and it's going to use them regardless of how others think blinkers should work.

Another car stopped at the intersection looking to turn right into my lane, he saw the blinker, incorrectly but logically thought i was turning. I was not. The light turned yellow fsd beta didnt stop, and I had to hard brake and disengage fsd beta to avoid t boning him as he turned into my lane.

I was bringing confections home for the family. The confections ended up on my windshield.

Debating uploading the footage, anyone know a painless way to splice the footage together?

 

[heapmaster]

It’s been quite variable for me. Some times it’s as you describe, one or two every 30 min. Other times it will start and keep going until I disable FSD or TACC.

I can definitely say that it isn’t always triggered by lighting changes. Very often I’ll be driving straight with no shadows, etc and the wipers will kick in. I’ve had it happen in sunny weather and overcast weather. Daytime and nighttime. Driving into the sun and away from it.

Keep an eye out for other teslas, maybe its the hidden feature of your car waving to its bothers and sisters, since it sure cant be what its really used for, removing water from the windshield. Mine does it no matter the conditions, at times so much I just turn it off cause its ridiculous.

 

[bayareaever]

This thread is so negative! I’ve been testing for ~2 years and currently on hw 4, v. 11.4.7.2. It’s definitely the best version I’ve experienced and for some reason improved a lot 3 or 4 days ago. I believe for the first time ever that dojo learning is happening in the background. I don’t know how else to explain the improvements. I’m in the SF Bay Area so maybe that helps. Also maybe hw 4 helps, not sure?

The fsd transfer obviously didn’t work for lots of folks with low trade in values, etc, but what a great deal for me personally. I sure hope as a long term investor that they can get hw 3 working well too.

 

[ArchHamster]

This thread is so negative! I’ve been testing for ~2 years and currently on hw 4, v. 11.4.7.2. It’s definitely the best version I’ve experienced and for some reason improved a lot 3 or 4 days ago. I believe for the first time ever that dojo learning is happening in the background. I don’t know how else to explain the improvements. I’m in the SF Bay Area so maybe that helps. Also maybe hw 4 helps, not sure?

The fsd transfer obviously didn’t work for lots of folks with low trade in values, etc, but what a great deal for me personally. I sure hope as a long term investor that they can get hw 3 working well too.

Dont let it get to you too much. People just need to vent. I'm still really enjoying fsd beta even though I think v11 isn't ready for the general public yet. How much you love it, I think, depends on a few factors:

1. How much you believed the massive over promises of Elon. Personally I never did, I've always assumed true fsd would be decades away at least if not ever. For those that did believe Elon, I understand the frustration.

2. How accepting you are of work in progress tech. Many people want things to work as expected and don't want to go through the pains, including the ups and downs, of the soul crushing development process. I live in this process, so it doesn't bother me much.

3. The manner in which you use fsd beta. I think there is floor, where if you fall below then it's just not worth the hassle. For instance, most of my drives are on the interstate/highway with minimal city streets and some rural and suburbia driving. In addition, a minimal drive for me is 1 hour, one way. If I only drove for about 15 minutes, one way, I don't think the bugs of fsd beta on every drive would be worth it. However fsd beta has always done very well on the interstates and highways, which is most of my drives. The city is hit or miss. Suburbia less so, rural is fine but mostly because no one is around. I can see how city only people may hate FSD beta.

4. Location and version number. Both these vary from time and update. 11.3.4 and 11.3.6 was a holy experience for me. There was a period where 11.4.7.0 was giving me near zero intervention drives. 11.4.7.2 has almost caused a collision, tried to run a semi off the road, cuts too sharp on turns, phantom brakes every other turn, has poor attention monitoring, and performs horrifically on unmarked streets. I don't disbelieve you are having fun with 11.4.7.2, enjoy it, it's just there are a lot of variables to consider for fsd beta and some of us got unlucky this version.

Your definitely right, fsd beta feels like it's always changing in minor ways. No two drives for me have been exactly the same despite mostly using the same routes. Something I've noticed. I drive in many environments. Places where teslas are common, places where they are rare. Fsd beta has always done better in places with more tesla traffic. Our cars are definitely taking notes and teaching each other things.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I believe for the first time ever that dojo learning is happening in the background.

This is not the reason.