FSD Beta v11.x

bayareaever · Oct 11, 2023

ArchHamster said:
Dont let it get to you too much. People just need to vent. I'm still really enjoying fsd beta even though I think v11 isn't ready for the general public yet. How much you love it, I think, depends on a few factors:

1. How much you believed the massive over promises of Elon. Personally I never did, I've always assumed true fsd would be decades away at least if not ever. For those that did believe Elon, I understand the frustration.

I was always cautiously optimistic but obviously Elon over promised which he shouldn’t have- but I think he actually thought this wouldn’t be such a difficult problem to solve. Plus, Tesla almost went bankrupt during this development so had he not over-promised, it quite possibly would have.

ArchHamster said:
2. How accepting you are of work in progress tech. Many people want things to work as expected and don't want to go through the pains, including the ups and downs, of the soul crushing development process. I live in this process, so it doesn't bother me much.

I’m unusually patient compared to most, so yeah.

ArchHamster said:
3. The manner in which you use fsd beta. I think there is floor, where if you fall below then it's just not worth the hassle. For instance, most of my drives are on the interstate/highway with minimal city streets and some rural and suburbia driving. In addition, a minimal drive for me is 1 hour, one way. If I only drove for about 15 minutes, one way, I don't think the bugs of fsd beta on every drive would be worth it. However fsd beta has always done very well on the interstates and highways, which is most of my drives. The city is hit or miss. Suburbia less so, rural is fine but mostly because no one is around. I can see how city only people may hate FSD beta.

I live in the city so despite my patience I’ve had plenty of frustration and outright yelling at my car (in private of course

) for the last two years. It’s only very recently that I’m getting quite impressed which is why I’m posting here. Good fsd drives in rural/quiet suburbs don’t impress me much anymore. Cities with bikes and pedestrians and cars everywhere are orders of magnitude more difficult to navigate smoothly through.

ArchHamster said:
4. Location and version number. Both these vary from time and update. 11.3.4 and 11.3.6 was a holy experience for me. There was a period where 11.4.7.0 was giving me near zero intervention drives. 11.4.7.2 has almost caused a collision, tried to run a semi off the road, cuts too sharp on turns, phantom brakes every other turn, has poor attention monitoring, and performs horrifically on unmarked streets. I don't disbelieve you are having fun with 11.4.7.2, enjoy it, it's just there are a lot of variables to consider for fsd beta and some of us got unlucky this version.

Your definitely right, fsd beta feels like it's always changing in minor ways. No two drives for me have been exactly the same despite mostly using the same routes. Something I've noticed. I drive in many environments. Places where teslas are common, places where they are rare. Fsd beta has always done better in places with more tesla traffic. Our cars are definitely taking notes and teaching each other things.

Minor changes have always been a constant. I’m referring to steady yet subtle improvements that have occurred very recently. The car is not perfect but path planning/ smoothness (especially with deceleration) is much better in the last ~4 days. I even turned up my speed offset to keep up with traffic because its not slamming the brakes to stop like it used to.

bayareaever · Oct 11, 2023

AlanSubie4Life said:
This is not the reason.

Ok, maybe it was the maps update but the timing of these improvements doesn’t coincide. Maybe you know something I don’t?

Elon exaggerates and over promises all the time, but he doesn’t really tell outright lies (there is a difference). He said dojo was beginning to come online a few months ago.

AlanSubie4Life · Oct 12, 2023

bayareaever said:
Ok, maybe it was the maps update but the timing of these improvements doesn’t coincide. Maybe you know something I don’t?

Elon exaggerates and over promises all the time, but he doesn’t really tell outright lies (there is a difference). He said dojo was beginning to come online a few months ago.

I don't doubt that there's some work on Dojo at this point (it's been years!), but not the reason for the observed behavior. Has been covered here before. Check Green's Twitter thread for a possible explanation (maps, as you mention, but not a maps update).

Changes in behavior can also be random variation.

kabin · Oct 12, 2023

bayareaever said:
Elon exaggerates and over promises all the time, but he doesn’t really tell outright lies (there is a difference).

Walter Isaacson's book has many anecdotes to the contrary. When it comes to money Elon will say anything.

heapmaster · Oct 12, 2023

Don't get me wrong, its amazing that just using cameras and a computer running NNs it can drive the car, and when it does good, its good, but when it is running a traffic light (this morning), its not good. I'm for sure disengaging and reporting a lot more then I did before. And now it likes its high beams on even with cars coming. I miss 11.3.6

mirkop82 · Oct 12, 2023

I've always assumed true fsd would be decades away at least if not ever.

@ArchHamster when I see Waymo’s I-Paces around SF, self-driving seems so close instead!
But sure, totally different technology behind…

WilliamG · Oct 12, 2023

bayareaever said:
Ok, maybe it was the maps update but the timing of these improvements doesn’t coincide. Maybe you know something I don’t?

Elon exaggerates and over promises all the time, but he doesn’t really tell outright lies (there is a difference). He said dojo was beginning to come online a few months ago.

Outright lies like FSD coming this year (every year) or that all Model S and X from November 2021 have a center horn just needing firmware to unlock? Or are those just “exaggerations” and “over promises?”

bayareaever · Oct 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
Outright lies like FSD coming this year (every year) or that all Model S and X from November 2021 have a center horn just needing firmware to unlock? Or are those just “exaggerations” and “over promises?”

Ok, the horn thing was arguably a lie but nobody cares much because it’s a small detail. My MX has no center horn and I just don’t care and I assume most owners don’t either. FSD timeline is clearly wishful thinking/over promising. The technology is actually progressing toward that goal for three years now and is light years ahead of the competition. The Waymo and Cruise argument is silly because they have no business model, not scalable, covered in ugly sensors, etc. They’re also getting stuck in challenging situations in SF and imo shouldn’t be allowed to be driverless yet.

Mary Barra and Joe Biden said GM is the EV leader- that qualifies as a big, important, and obvious lie, and then everyone just moved on. Corporate/political leadership unfortunately requires some fibs/exaggerations. That’s life.

mirkop82 · Oct 12, 2023

bayareaever said:
The Waymo and Cruise argument is silly because they have no business model, not scalable, covered in ugly sensors, etc

You don't always need a business model

Actually, doing research it is almost better if you don't have it (IMHO and looking at the startups’ evolution in the last 20 years).

WilliamG · Oct 12, 2023

bayareaever said:
Ok, the horn thing was arguably a lie but nobody cares much because it’s a small detail. My MX has no center horn and I just don’t care and I assume most owners don’t either. FSD timeline is clearly wishful thinking/over promising. The technology is actually progressing toward that goal for three years now and is light years ahead of the competition.

To the first, most people do care about the center horn, so you speak for a small minority there.

Second, FSD over promising I can accept back in 2018, and maaaaaybe in 2019. In nearly 2024? It’s 100% a lie and indefensible.

mtndrew1 · Oct 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
To the first, most people do care about the center horn, so you speak for a small minority there.

Second, FSD over promising I can accept back in 2018, and maaaaaybe in 2019. In nearly 2024? It’s 100% a lie and indefensible.

The most recent prognostication from the chief twit is:

“I think we are very close to achieving full self-driving without human supervision… I think we will achieve full self driving, depending on what level you call it, four or five, I think later this year.”Jul 7, 2023

If I were betting a dollar I’d say this is more nonsense. About 80 days until we find out.

bayareaever · Oct 12, 2023

WilliamG said:
To the first, most people do care about the center horn, so you speak for a small minority there.

Second, FSD over promising I can accept back in 2018, and maaaaaybe in 2019. In nearly 2024? It’s 100% a lie and indefensible.

I hear you but the choices are to either keep waiting for fsd or go after Tesla in court or stop using fsd or just sell the car.

I wonder how many on this thread actually use fsdb regularly because that’s the only way to measure the progress, which is unmistakable, despite plenty of steps backward over time.

Fsd capability today would have seemed amazing 10 or even 5 years ago. I guess if rockets are ever transporting people to mars one day, they’ll be endless complaining online about how slow and uncomfortable the ride is. Such is life.

FSDtester#1 · Oct 12, 2023

Took three drives with heavy rain the last 2 days. 1 trip out of 3, during heavy rain the auto wipers worked. The other 2 times, nothing. Had to turn them on and off like my 1982 Volkswagen. At least Tesla's have air conditioning, can't say the same for my VW.

Dewg · Oct 12, 2023

Seriously, stop listening to Musk. He's the modern day Nostradamus, tossing out quatrains left and right and occasionally one kinda fits. Take everything he says as entertaining, and not educational or instructive.

On the other hand, people listening to him does create lots of drama here which is also entertaining... Hmmm...

WilliamG · Oct 12, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
The most recent prognostication from the chief twit is:

“I think we are very close to achieving full self-driving without human supervision… I think we will achieve full self driving, depending on what level you call it, four or five, I think later this year.”Jul 7, 2023

If I were betting a dollar I’d say this is more nonsense. About 80 days until we find out.

Zero chance. Zero.

Tronguy · Oct 12, 2023

FSDtester#1 said:
Took three drives with heavy rain the last 2 days. 1 trip out of 3, during heavy rain the auto wipers worked. The other 2 times, nothing. Had to turn them on and off like my 1982 Volkswagen. At least Tesla's have air conditioning, can't say the same for my VW.

On the other hand: Drove to and from Boston when the latest Big Storm was passing by and passed through the center of it on my way to Beantown. (Reverse trip was much nicer, sunny days and all that.)

The auto wipers did their bit over 150 miles of heavy rain without trouble. Even when FSD-b gave up and said, "It's too blame fuzzy out there, you drive!" for about 80 miles of that through Central Connecticut and Central MA. Won't argue with it this time: Between the heavy rainfall and all the semis kicking up gobs of vision impairing water, in the middle of the day a 100, 150 yards of visibility is What One Got. Taillights were visible, though.

No problem hydroplaning (Michelin Defenders rock..) and when the rain died down on the Mass Pike heading East, auto-everything eventually kicked back into gear.

Interesting sequence going in and out of the rain, though.

Everything normal, FSD-b style, with auto lane change and such.
Car complains about Too Much Obscure (can't remember the actual error message): Will still do lane changes, but limits the speed limit to +5 above the actual speed limit. Not good when the limit is 55 and everybody and their brother and laws are doing 65..
Then car won't do lane changes, speed limit still at +5.
Then car speed limit drops to the actual speed limit.
Then car speed limit drops to -5 the actual speed limit.
Then it totally gives up and tells the driver to drive.

The reverse occured as visibility improved.

When it got to, "Actual Speed Limit" I gave up and drove manually. At one point I took it out of FSD-b and went for EAP (that is, lanekeep and TACC), but discovered that that system agreed with the speed limit requirements. Since I didn't feel like getting squashed like a bug by the hulking semis, manual driving it was. (Those semis.. The rain itself wasn't all that bad so, if there weren't any trucks around, one could see just fine. But the cabs on the semis are all high up above the foo-fer-aw, so they don't notice the mess they're making down below.)

And that's what one gets for driving around in near-hurricanes

.

As I said: The wipers worked fine, though. A few dry wipes on the way back the following day, but nothing obnoxious.

jebinc · Oct 12, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
The most recent prognostication from the chief twit is:

“I think we are very close to achieving full self-driving without human supervision… I think we will achieve full self driving, depending on what level you call it, four or five, I think later this year.”Jul 7, 2023

If I were betting a dollar I’d say this is more nonsense. About 80 days until we find out.

We don’t need to wait the 80 days to know/find out…

kabin · Oct 12, 2023

Dewg said:
Seriously, stop listening to Musk. He's the modern day Nostradamus, tossing out quatrains left and right and occasionally one kinda fits. Take everything he says as entertaining, and not educational or instructive.

On the other hand, people listening to him does create lots of drama here which is also entertaining... Hmmm...

It's a valid discussion especially for anyone considering an FSD purchase. Nothing wrong with calling him out. Heck, even in the last day or so someone here suggested Elon doesn't lie!!!

PACEMD · Oct 12, 2023

FSDtester#1 said:
Took three drives with heavy rain the last 2 days. 1 trip out of 3, during heavy rain the auto wipers worked. The other 2 times, nothing. Had to turn them on and off like my 1982 Volkswagen. At least Tesla's have air conditioning, can't say the same for my VW.

Right, so heavy to variable rain on my 150-mile interstate commute home today. At one point I had to pull off at a rest stop for a serious discussion with my new M3P..........

"You picked the wroooooong day to be a punk..........punk"............."seeings as how this is FSDb and those windshield wipers will blow your head clean off..........you gotta ask yourself one question..........

.........well.........do you punk?"

PACEMD · Oct 12, 2023

PACEMD said:
Right, so heavy to variable rain on my 150-mile interstate commute home today. At one point I had to pull off at a rest stop for a serious discussion with my new M3P..........

"You picked the wroooooong day to be a punk..........punk"............."seeings as how this is FSDb and those windshield wipers will blow your head clean off..........you gotta ask yourself one question..........

.........well.........do you punk?"

Actually, I'm lying.........the wippers did oddly well on this trip...........a few times under or over aggressive but on the whole not bad. I didn't actually have to intervene, no rescue wiper interventions needed today.........

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