FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[JulienW]

Regarding the eternal debate as to whether checking for updates makes any difference, just now I hopped in my MY 2023 model 3 RWD and tapped the software item. After a few seconds with the "checking for updates" indications, it stated that 2023.44.30.8 was initiating download. Car is currently on 2023.44.30.5.1.

It appears that 2023.44.30.8 is going "pretty wide" and is already the second highest number of cars in the TeslaFi subscriber base for installations.

My personal opinion is that the "does checking matter" answer changes from time to time, and that probably this time for me it advanced my installation by at least a little.

Confirmation bias .... how many times have you checked it and got the up to date message? If you are NOT in the queue for the update then checking will display the usual up to date message. If you are in the queue and check it will confirm an update but if you don't check you WILL still get the Notification in minutes to a few hours. No one has ever missed out on getting an update because they "failed" to check for an update.

 

[diplomat33]

I had an uncomfortable situation yesterday. Driving home on FSD Beta, on a main road with speed limit 55 mph, the car needed to make a right turn at a traffic light onto a smaller road with speed limit of 30 mph. FSD beta did not slow down enough, it just sped towards the traffic light that was green and put on the turn signal at the last second and tried to just make the right turn at full speed! I disengaged and hit the brakes and made the turn ok but it was not comfortable. This seems like such a simple scenario. On previous versions, FSD beta would slow down and move over into the emergency shoulder as if was a lane and make the right turn from the emergency shoulder which is also not ideal. I have to admit these mistakes frustrate me.

 

[rlsd]

I had an uncomfortable situation yesterday. Driving home on FSD Beta, on a main road with speed limit 55 mph, the car needed to make a right turn at a traffic light onto a smaller road with speed limit of 30 mph. FSD beta did not slow down enough, it just sped towards the traffic light that was green and put on the turn signal at the last second and tried to just make the right turn at full speed! I disengaged and hit the brakes and made the turn ok but it was not comfortable. This seems like such a simple scenario. On previous versions, FSD beta would slow down and move over into the emergency shoulder as if was a lane and make the right turn from the emergency shoulder which is also not ideal. I have to admit these mistakes frustrate me.

I always watch FSD and ready to pull the wheel when it makes right turn from a high speed main street to a small street. Sometimes it swings across the left lane to make the turn (instead of using the bike line/dedicated right turn lane). A lot a time it turns too close to the car stopping at the intersection although the lane it turns into is wide.

 

[Supcom]

I had an uncomfortable situation yesterday. Driving home on FSD Beta, on a main road with speed limit 55 mph, the car needed to make a right turn at a traffic light onto a smaller road with speed limit of 30 mph. FSD beta did not slow down enough, it just sped towards the traffic light that was green and put on the turn signal at the last second and tried to just make the right turn at full speed! I disengaged and hit the brakes and made the turn ok but it was not comfortable. This seems like such a simple scenario. On previous versions, FSD beta would slow down and move over into the emergency shoulder as if was a lane and make the right turn from the emergency shoulder which is also not ideal. I have to admit these mistakes frustrate me.

I've never had issues with this scenario, but will keep your experience in mind.

 

[scottf200]

Regarding the eternal debate as to whether checking for updates makes any difference, just now I hopped in my MY 2023 model 3 RWD and tapped the software item. After a few seconds with the "checking for updates" indications, it stated that 2023.44.30.8 was initiating download. Car is currently on 2023.44.30.5.1.

It appears that 2023.44.30.8 is going "pretty wide" and is already the second highest number of cars in the TeslaFi subscriber base for installations.

My personal opinion is that the "does checking matter" answer changes from time to time, and that probably this time for me it advanced my installation by at least a little.

Confirmation bias .... how many times have you checked it and got the up to date message? If you are NOT in the queue for the update then checking will display the usual up to date message. If you are in the queue and check it will confirm an update but if you don't check you WILL still get the Notification in minutes to a few hours. No one has ever missed out on getting an update because they "failed" to check for an update.

Like @archae86 I did the same check and it "hesitated" for 30+ seconds and started the download. Green bar went about 1/2 way and I assumed it was downloaded and was verifying the download (must do more than a CRC-type check as it takes a while).
@JulienW comments do make perfect sense to me tho.

Aside: Cybertruck Service Mode show partition/banks for your software download/updates. From my thread on another site.
_

 

[frankvb]

Just to point to the inconsistency - a few versions ago FSD slowed down the car down way too late and had to brake hard for a right-turn from a 50 mph (3 lanes each way) road into a residential road close to my home. It wasn't unsafe but not something any driver would do normally. After a few times I never let it do that anymore. Tried the same with 2023.44.30.8 yesterday and it was much improved, slowing down more gradual earlier.

Still the problem is it doesn't really go to the far right of the lane (including a bike line with dotted lines) before making the turn, thereby blocking any traffic behind you continuing straight. Positioning did improve a bit though.

 

[scottf200]

Re: 2023.44.30.8

I have 2017 TMX and after what appeared to be a good install of 30.8 from 30.6, I'm getting a 'Software update required' msg.
NOTE: I did a two-finger reboot with no change. I'm considering the reinstall option within Service Mode but wanted to check forums first.

Drivers display:

Service Mode expansion of msg (what was duplicated w/same time):

Service Mode option to do software reinstall

 

[FSDtester#1]

Re: 2023.44.30.8

I have 2017 TMX and after what appeared to be a good install of 30.8 from 30.6, I'm getting a 'Software update required' msg.
NOTE: I did a two-finger reboot with no change. I'm considering the reinstall option within Service Mode but wanted to check forums first.

Drivers display:

Service Mode expansion of msg (what was duplicated w/same time):

Service Mode option to do software reinstall

I would put in a service request. They can likely fix this OTA.
I never want to mess around with reinstalls.

 

[Twiglett]

I had an uncomfortable situation yesterday. Driving home on FSD Beta, on a main road with speed limit 55 mph, the car needed to make a right turn at a traffic light onto a smaller road with speed limit of 30 mph. FSD beta did not slow down enough, it just sped towards the traffic light that was green and put on the turn signal at the last second and tried to just make the right turn at full speed! I disengaged and hit the brakes and made the turn ok but it was not comfortable. This seems like such a simple scenario. On previous versions, FSD beta would slow down and move over into the emergency shoulder as if was a lane and make the right turn from the emergency shoulder which is also not ideal. I have to admit these mistakes frustrate me.

I've had this scenario many time, especially when turning from a fast road to slow/narrow road. It just seems to bypass any form of slowdown and takes a forceful brake application to get around the corner.
I really wish there was meaningful route planning going on, but sadly it seems not

 

[hybridbear]

I've had this scenario many time, especially when turning from a fast road to slow/narrow road. It just seems to bypass any form of slowdown and takes a forceful brake application to get around the corner.
I really wish there was meaningful route planning going on, but sadly it seems not

I don't allow it to drive in these situations. When it's not slowing down soon enough I gently tap the brake pedal to disengage & make the turn manually. I've also used the AP lever to lower the speed progressively to make it slow down gradually before a turn.

 

[rlsd]

Problems with right turn from small street to main street are:
1. Creeping too fast to main street
2. Creeping too close to main street traffic
3. Jerking wheel when creeping

 

[sleepydoc]

I had an uncomfortable situation yesterday. Driving home on FSD Beta, on a main road with speed limit 55 mph, the car needed to make a right turn at a traffic light onto a smaller road with speed limit of 30 mph. FSD beta did not slow down enough, it just sped towards the traffic light that was green and put on the turn signal at the last second and tried to just make the right turn at full speed! I disengaged and hit the brakes and made the turn ok but it was not comfortable. This seems like such a simple scenario. On previous versions, FSD beta would slow down and move over into the emergency shoulder as if was a lane and make the right turn from the emergency shoulder which is also not ideal. I have to admit these mistakes frustrate me.

I had FSD try to run 2 red lights on me yesterday. At the first I was waiting to turn and the light was red. The car made a slight jerk once so I was on alert that it might try something then, a few seconds later it started to go. The visualization still showed red lights, but showed the path continuing through the intersection with no stop line.

Later, on during the same drive home, it continued accelerating up to a red light, making no attempt or indication that it would slow down. I hit the brakes when I wasn’t comfortable waiting any longer.

I haven’t had any issues with red lights in quite some time, but this is a pretty big fail.

 

[hybridbear]

I had FSD try to run 2 red lights on me yesterday. At the first I was waiting to turn and the light was red. The car made a slight jerk once so I was on alert that it might try something then, a few seconds later it started to go. The visualization still showed red lights, but showed the path continuing through the intersection with no stop line.

Later, on during the same drive home, it continued accelerating up to a red light, making no attempt or indication that it would slow down. I hit the brakes when I wasn’t comfortable waiting any longer.

I haven’t had any issues with red lights in quite some time, but this is a pretty big fail.

Were they LED traffic lights? The cameras struggle with the refresh rate of LEDs. HW4 is supposed to fix this I believe.

 

[Mardak]

Just installed 2023.44.30.8 / 11.4.9. Maybe the threshold for FSD unavailable / Poor weather detected was adjusted? Or maybe the snow is worse than usual? But no need to Take Over Immediately as it continued to steer just fine, so took a picture instead.

 

[cbdream99]

I had an uncomfortable situation yesterday. Driving home on FSD Beta, on a main road with speed limit 55 mph, the car needed to make a right turn at a traffic light onto a smaller road with speed limit of 30 mph. FSD beta did not slow down enough, it just sped towards the traffic light that was green and put on the turn signal at the last second and tried to just make the right turn at full speed! I disengaged and hit the brakes and made the turn ok but it was not comfortable. This seems like such a simple scenario. On previous versions, FSD beta would slow down and move over into the emergency shoulder as if was a lane and make the right turn from the emergency shoulder which is also not ideal. I have to admit these mistakes frustrate me.

I ran into this type scenarios in multiple locations. Both of them are service road after highway exit, so speed is 50mph, at the end it needs to make a right turn at the red light to a state highway. FSD will travel at full speed until it sees another car in the front and then hard brake, if it is the leading vehicle and a green light then it will try to make a turn at 50mph. It didn't do that back in 11.3.6, one time I let it go and it is scary - like Bonnie and Clyde running from cops, ended in the middle of a 3-4 lanes road, disengaged by itself. If someone is running a red light from the other direction then it will be very ugly.

 

[mgs333]

Problems with right turn from small street to main street are:
1. Creeping too fast to main street
2. Creeping too close to main street traffic
3. Jerking wheel when creeping

In such scenarios, my car usually creeps out too much for my (and oncoming traffic's) comfort but it would stop just short of colliding with oncoming cars but oncoming cars usually stop or go around or I disengage.

But today it kept creeping until it was straight up blocking the traffic lane so I had to quickly accelerate to merge as the oncoming cars were slowing down.

Also, today in light-moderate rain, the autowipers' performance degraded a bit to where it was rather lazy to wipe, it would be better after a manual wipe. I'm still on 2023.44.30.5.1. After 2023.44.30.5.1 was just installed a couple of weeks ago, it performed flawlessly.

 

[Twiglett]

I don't allow it to drive in these situations. When it's not slowing down soon enough I gently tap the brake pedal to disengage & make the turn manually. I've also used the AP lever to lower the speed progressively to make it slow down gradually before a turn.

To be clear, its me applying the brakes and getting around the corner

 

[cbdream99]

I don't allow it to drive in these situations. When it's not slowing down soon enough I gently tap the brake pedal to disengage & make the turn manually. I've also used the AP lever to lower the speed progressively to make it slow down gradually before a turn.

After a while, it became old. On the highway, I used to do that to avoid dramatic hard braking but it seems to improve over time and slow down earlier. On the city it just blindly follow the speed limit and doesn't use any common sense - For example, traveling 40 mph in a city street with a curvy S section that ended with a red lights, there are yellow direction posts to warn drivers .. there is a big dip coming up with a DIP sign, never slows down; on a service/feeder road, read the speed limit signs on the left of the interstate and mistaken as speed limit. It's called Full "Self" driving - change speed manually, change lane manually, signal manually ... and control wipers manually

 

[sleepydoc]

Were they LED traffic lights? The cameras struggle with the refresh rate of LEDs. HW4 is supposed to fix this I believe.

I believe they were - most lights around here are now. There’s been a lot of theorizing that that the fast blinking of LED lights combined with the shutter speed of the camera causes aliasing. No one knows if this is the case or it’s something else but either way it’s a problem that can and should be dealt with via software.

As of 11.4.1 FSD still couldn’t handle blinking red lights which would argue against aliasing being the problem. If it doesn’t know to proceed on a blinking red it shouldn’t proceed on a red that appears to blink.

 

[kabin]

Maybe it's related to what some are reporting but I've noticed times where 11.4.9 runs in a dumbed-down mode. FSD path is neutered to lane keeping and CC with map data. In one case there's a new 2 lane roundabout where FSD tries to barrel though at 45mph. On a clear night with no roadway traffic, FSD ignores highly reflective signage, road hardware, and the quickly approaching roundabout island. I let it play out to the last second with max manual braking in the hope the scenario gets a higher priority update. This photon count conservation mode is 100% repeatable at this roundabout so long as there is no lemming-mode lead vehicle.