We would probably have more control as adaptive AI driving is implemented when it is mature enough.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Doubtful outside of routes. The goal is to make the drives autonomous.
Yeah, if we get L3 or L4 then we won't have much of any control.
Yes. That's the point of auto speed.
As we've seen, we will lose options with L2 as they test out things for "L3-L5", regardless if it ever really gets there.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yep, and manual mode too unfortunately (which is exactly the same except for the speed cap being controllable).
If you're driving manually, that's fine. But someone might want 1 car length or less (because no one will get in front of me, damnit!), and the NN cannot react fast enough with that close of a gap, and will rear end the car in front if they brake hard. Then the driver will say "BUT BUT BUT, the car was driving, it's not my fault!!!".
Best advice I can give - stop caring about things like follow distance. Just relax and let the car assist with driving. If there is a good sized gap in front of you, and people can change lanes in front of you, just chill out and let it happen. I swear you will still get to your destination, even if it's a minute or two later. The guy that cuts in front of you doesn't matter, really, seriously - doesn't matter.
Like those insurance big brother apps, monitoring us to give a discount, really forcing us to use to keep our rates reasonable, opt out and they Jack your rates
Imagine a future where insurance discounts our insurance if we use FSD, really forcing us to drive with FSD to keep rates from being jacked
I like FSD, but a future could be coming where we are not allowed to drive and must use FSD
It could happen
Imagine a future where insurance discounts our insurance if we use FSD, really forcing us to drive with FSD to keep rates from being jacked
I like FSD, but a future could be coming where we are not allowed to drive and must use FSD
It could happen
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
More complaints and people being let down.
Not from me though, happy to report I just had my 1st disengagement in over 1K miles. It did happen minutes after mobile service installed the new Yoke, highly recommend btw, very nice to have record button and horn in the middle where it always belonged. Materials are much better to the touch. Due to the install they had to push a reinstall of 2024.3.15.
With this new version giving support to the new yoke. Minutes later went for a drive and pulling into a neighborhood, it tried to enter the exit side instead of the entrance. I just laughed
... disengaged and said on the record button, "umm, boys, ego wants to enter in the exit, not my style"..
PianoAl
Active Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never heard of a complaint about tailgating prior to V12.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
Is TAAC no longer available in FSD mode? It's all or nothing now? That would make FSD unusable for me. Too many potholes to avoid on my way to work.
You can just switch profiles to a profile that has FSD off and use AP/TACC, but it is disabled.
Well, think about it. The more efficient and cooperative autonomous cars become, the more dangerous (to everyone) it becomes to have human drivers in the mix. The shift will be gradual, but the end point I see is humans driving on tracks, pretty much, or at least closed courses of some kind. Out in public, if you're a half-decent driver the autonomous vehicles will have no problem with you (you'd just reduce the efficiency of travel of everyone near you). But what happens when someone gets in the mood for "suicide by autonomous vehicle" and puts themselves into a head-on high-speed collision? Or has a heart attack or whatever. The risk will at some point be deemed too high...Like those insurance big brother apps, monitoring us to give a discount, really forcing us to use to keep our rates reasonable, opt out and they Jack your rates
Imagine a future where insurance discounts our insurance if we use FSD, really forcing us to drive with FSD to keep rates from being jacked
I like FSD, but a future could be coming where we are not allowed to drive and must use FSD
It could happen
We've been driving 12.3.4 for several days in Sedona. It's been doing super well with the heavy car and tourist traffic. Tons of roundabouts one after the other including several double lane roundabouts. Handles flawlessly in most cases. Only twice out of 20+ have I had to "encourage" entrance by pressing lightly on the accelerator to get it to commit and these were super crowded roundabout situations. Even had someone enter too far to stop and the car stopped and waited while we waved them on - they were blocking our exit.
The car is great at people watching preparing to stop for folks approaching a crosswalk. Lots of pedestrians around here. It even slows on occasion when visibility is poor in case people walk out between parked cars.
Also narrow and twisty two lane roads it does super well, slowing as needed in a turn and great lane keeping and watching other cars. We had a fun twisty road today with close guard rails and lots of oncoming traffic. Handled it super well.
This all is really giving the driver a break in unfamiliar surroundings.
The car is great at people watching preparing to stop for folks approaching a crosswalk. Lots of pedestrians around here. It even slows on occasion when visibility is poor in case people walk out between parked cars.
Also narrow and twisty two lane roads it does super well, slowing as needed in a turn and great lane keeping and watching other cars. We had a fun twisty road today with close guard rails and lots of oncoming traffic. Handled it super well.
This all is really giving the driver a break in unfamiliar surroundings.
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You can switch from FSD to TACC while in drive (only by menu, not by stalk anymore) but not from TACC to FSD (without going into Park).
Does v12 even respect this setting? Even with Minimal Lane Changes, it makes frequent unnecessary lane changes. I haven't noticed any differences between the driving profiles either (Chill/Average/Assertive). Even user-requested lane changes have less effect than in v11. Sometimes the car will outright ignore them.
I'm not liking this pure robotaxi direction FSD is heading in. Not everyone wants to make their personal car available to any complete stranger. Do I really want someone hailing my car after a night of drinking and barfing in it?
Maybe it's not so much a robotaxi consideration as it is a hard limitation of the NN approach. But I miss being able to control the traveling speed using the scroll wheel instead of the pedal. It was a novel way of interacting with the car. Mind you, you can still control the speed of the car by using the pedal directly. This doesn't even disengage FSD, so I don't believe relinquishing all control to the car is a requirement for L3 and above. Otherwise it would disengage as soon as you touch the accelerator.
If the car could legitimately get to the destination while I use my laptop, I would not care about what speed or lane it chooses. Or if it could consistently make those decisions without being an obstruction to the cars around me. Until then I will need to be engaged in the driving process, and I am going to want some meaningful input into how the car drives.
I have to mention that most of my drives involves highways that don't switchover to v11. Speed and lane change (poor selection plus wobble during execution) issues are much less noticeable on slow-moving surface streets. v12 works remarkably well on such streets, and remarkably poor on roads that are faster and more open.
I agree v12 is very adept at these slow moving roads. It's the opposite of v11, where highways were great but surface street were a problem. Now it's highways that are the problem (highways that don't trigger the v11 switchover).
I also noticed I appreciate v12 a lot more on unfamiliar roads. On familiar roads, you know in greater detail how the car should drive. On unfamiliar roads, it is less obvious so you have less expectation of how the car should drive. FSD is like a perpetual out-of-towner, which works great when you are an out-of-towner as well.
I would just be happy if they fixed some of the basics issues like staying in the same lane when making a left turn or not going straight if the car is in a left turning lane.
These are basic issues that are still present in v12.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I’m set to assertive. Seems to have no effect on surface streets though.
General impressions after additional drives.
- Speed is a non-issue for me. I just let FSD do it's thing now. Initially was way too slow than too fast but now I don't even think about changing the speed on City/Streets. On highways occasionally. I do wish Tesla would actually have the settings Chill/Avg/Assertive actually mean something. Using Average with Relative Offset set at +3 mph. Passengers don't seem to care. Non highway driving is mostly on 2 lane roads which I think makes a difference and why many others using multiple lane roads complain.
- Most disengagements (80%) are pothole avoidance and approaching police details where hand signals will be used. All road work is handled by police no flaggers with Stop/Go signs.
- Biggest complaints. (city/streets)
- Too timid at Stop signs. Sometimes over 10 seconds. Especially noticeable when at low visibility intersections or there is no crossing traffic.
- Lane selection wobbling
- Lack of support for School Busses, School Zones and emergency vehicles
- I would use parking assist more if it was faster since it does a good job.
- I use FSD in parking lots and most of the time it does ok but needs lots of improvement. I hope Tesla uses the data
- Would be great if there was an easy way to change destination Pin placement and as an example have FSD park in my driveway.
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